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Jan 20, 2013

EU tree: Swiss tier 10 TD project

Hello everyone,

I found recently (while looking for other vehicles) a new project (quite interesting actually) that could fit the tier 10 TD slot in the incoming EU tree. Introducing:

MOWAG Taifun prototype


The Swiss company called MOWAG is not a newbie on the field of weaponry. In the 60's, it competed for the German Marder IVF program with its own prototype and later it built several prototypes for the German Kanonenjagdpanzer program. From there on, the company used its considerable experience in creating a line of light tank destroyer designs - the Gepard and the Taifun. The Gepard (looked a lot like the German Kanonenjagdpanzer) was not successful in entering the service and neither was the other similiar project, the Tornado (designed as an IFV). The development of both was privately funded, because the company expected Switzerland to start replacing the old AMX-13 tanks (classified in Switzerland as TD's) and the US M113 APC's. In the end, only a pre-prototype (functional model) was completed and the vehicle never entered service. It can be regarded as one of the last real tank destroyers and most likely (along with the S-Tank) one of the last turretless "oldschool" Jagdpanzers.

The Taifun was basically a development of the Gepard (Tornado) chassis. It was a very light vehicle  - its armor (50mm?) protected the 4-man crew basically only from HE shell fragments and from light autocannon fire (it could withstand only 25mm shells however). The armament consisted of the classic 105mm L7 clone (however, an upgrade to the Rheinmetall 120mm L/55 was considered - not an option for WoT though). The considered turbocharged dieselengine was a 575hp Detroit Diesel 8V-71T - the same to be fitted to the ill-fated Tornado IFV. Combined with the light chassis (estimated 25-30 tons), this vehicle could move fast. Real fast.

In World of Tanks?

As you can see, this vehicle looks badass. It's like the ultimate Jagdpanzer IV on steroids. And crack. And heroin. While the project itself was developed in late 70's (yes yes, I see you all rising your eyebrows now), its roots actually run into early 60's. The chassis is old - it's basically the same (although modified) chassis used for the 60's Tornado - and that's not so bad. The armor is obviously very thin (think 30-50mm), but - as mentioned above - the vehicle is very light and has a very powerful engine, therefore it will be fast. Really fast. Cca 70 km/h on the road is expected and that's just the "basic" powerpack. With upgrades, it could be the tier 10 Hellcat-meets-Jagdpanzer. The main gun is adequate - the ubiquitous L7 is already in the game and despite the fact it would be fitted with advanced sights and other 80's thingies in real life, one can easily imagine this vehicle having Leopard 1-grade optics. Naturally, in order not to get oneshotted by pretty much anything, the suspension would have to be really nimble, which is actually something totally new - we don't have that in the tier 10 TD vehicles.


Crew: 4
Armor: 30-50mm (estimated)
Weapon: 105mm (L7 clone?)
Ammo: estimated 50 rounds
Speed: cca 70km/h
Weight: estimated 25-30 tons
Powerplant: Detroit Diesel 8V-71T, 575hp


    It looks too good to be implemented, though.

  2. SilentStalker what are the russians thinking about the Chinese tanks?

    1. Hard to say in general, there are already (literally) hundreds of pages of posts about them and I really can't go thru it all. I don't have the feeling they'd be really unpopular tho, people mostly complain about obvious issues (such as the weird WZ-120 engines, low 59-16 pen etc.)

  3. I don't think this could be a Tier X tank destroyer. The 105mm L7 is simply far too weak for a Tier X tank destroyer - after all, it is the typical Tier X medium armament in this game (FV4202 and M48 Patton use it, and the E-50M/BatChat use clones of it). If you take a Tier X medium tank, remove the turret, and make its armour paper-thin... you don't get a good recipe.

    Tank destroyers have inherent disadvantages - that's why the typical recipe for a good tank destroyer, that stays consistent throughout most tiers, is: The equivalent or better gun of a one tier higher heavy, PLUS either solid speed or workable armour. This is actually a pretty consistent rule - most of the TDs that don't completely suck follow it.

    Interestingly, the Jagdpanzer IV is one of the tanks that doesn't really follow this recipe, and it happens to be considered the worst Tier VI TD by popular opinion. It mounts the gun of a same-tier medium... much like your suggested Tier X KanonJagdpanzer or Swiss version of it.

    On top of all of this, the KanonJagdpanzer wouldn't even be that unique as a Tier X TD - the AMX50Foch (155) is also agile, with a relatively low profile, while maintaining incredible firepower and workable armour.

    I do think it could fit at Tier IX. The Jagdpanther II is a fair comparison to it, I think. With the 105mm L7 it sports 390 alpha to the Jagdpanther II's 320, and it's also faster, with a lower profile, and more modernised/accurate.

    Just my two cents.

    1. Jagdpanther II's 490(12,8 cm PaK 44 L/55) you mean.

  4. turretless and auto-loaderless BatChat... I do not see it as a good tier 10 TD combination... but it might work

    + low, fast, nimble and of course excellent camo value

    - 105mm is not really TD material, but T-62A rate of fire should compensate

    Thin armor but sexy slope (In tier 10 battles I do not rely on armor, I try not to give the enemy a chance to hit me)

    Definitely would be a new breed of TD


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