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May 13, 2013

0.8.6+ observations

A few short points I have put together from today's leaks:

In 0.8.6, 105mm HEAT shells (Panzer IV, Sherman) get a bad pen nerf (from 150 to roughly 104 pen), unless they keep "special" heat shells for arty (unlikely, it's not like that now). Bye bye T5 derp.

Also, splash for hightier arty shells gets reduced, roughly by 10 percent. This doesn't have to be a rule, but it's like that with the new T8 GW Tiger P arty, which means the GW Panther and GW Tiger will have their splash reduced too, as they use the same guns.

Oh and as for the upcoming tier 10 Waffentr├Ąger E-100: schematics are already made and it's confirmed it won't have a 210mm gun, so (unless it has the same gun as Jpz E-100, which would be lame), we are looking at 150mm L/68 - verdict: most likely more mobile vehicle with VERY high penetration, armor is yet to be seen.

89 comments:

  1. Fail. Nerf Accuracy, Splash, make em useless. Damn tards.

    On heat derps: Good, though i didnt experience 150mm pen as "OP" anyway.

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    Replies
    1. Hah, finally the arty is getting some sh*t to. Hope they go extiinct!

      Delete
    2. Glad to see the arty boys cry boo boo. Do you wantna tissue?

      Delete
    3. Yeah I wait for more camping action as well...

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    4. Tehy just nerfed arty in the wrong way; they will *still* randomly oneshot or severely cripple tanks, now it's just even less about skill and more about luck.

      -Platypusbill

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    5. They shud increase the aim time of the tier 5 derp guns as well. 2.3 seconds is way too quick. I still dun mind derp guns on TDs though as they've limited gun traverse.

      Delete
  2. Hezter's HEAT has the same pen. nerf right?

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    Replies
    1. It is the same gun in TD version: so yes, in my opinion it is really great, i have the Hetzer and it is my favourite low tier tank but it is so powerfull now.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, deserved nerf, I played derp Hetzer too with HEAT shells: 150 matches/30 top guns. Although I think reducing a bit the traverse speed would be great, it's just too aggresive when aiming in sniper mode and makes your crosshair fly to the airs

      Delete
    3. YEAH screw those op derpers!

      Last time I got a hit from a Pz 4 with gold in my SU-122-44... Half my HP gone from full HP.

      And also when playing in my Valentine 2, it is annoying. (The Valentine 2 gets no damage from plain HE derps)

      Delete
  3. -verdict: most likely more mobile vehicle with VERY high penetration, armor is yet to be seen.


    Nothing on the E-100 chassis will ever be "mobile", but I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. I'm expecting a rather useless open-topped Jagdtiger to be honest.

    -eNumbra.

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    Replies
    1. Well you could go do the French way(AMX M4 45 is a Kingtiger with vastly less armor) and remove most armor to make it like, I dunno, 120/80/60 and give it a bigger engine/more efficient track setup.

      -Dantron on NA/EU forums

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    2. I agree mostly with your opinion except for few thing.
      Firstly, reducing armor thickness AND replacing the 60 tone turret will have alot influence on mobility by making E-100 chassis lighter. It may not improve max speed too much but it will improve power to weight ratio which means better climb, better acceleration and better turning speed.

      I don't expect this thing to be as mobile as E-50 but the improvement will definitely be noticeable.

      Delete
  4. "In 0.8.6, 105mm HEAT shells get a bad pen nerf (from 150 to roughly 104 pen)"


    Nice!! Now, can I have my old vk2801 config back?

    Henriques (EU)

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    Replies
    1. oh yea i dont see this problem, i think they have to buff it in some patch after 8.6...

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    2. They should make the 105 into two different versions, one for lower tier Hetzer and Pz.IV, one for higher tier VK2801 and recon Panther, and give it new shell with less pen nerf.
      But believe me, they are not going to do that.

      Delete
    3. That was already suggest by many people, but as SerB says, community only suggests crap.

      Hell they didn't had to change guns, just ammo would be enough.

      Give hetzer/pz4 and any other vehicle that is below T5 current ammo with nerfed gold pen and all others which are T6+ a new ammo with the current penetration.

      Done.

      Delete
  5. nerf arty into oblivion and beyond.

    ReplyDelete
  6. That Sound a lot like second German TD tree in 8.7!

    Uh uuhhhh *doing the Hand pyramid of evil*

    Snortsch

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  7. Great news on the heat rounds...had my fun with it but it really is pay4win(now for balancing other tanks like kv1s:D)

    About the arty its one big fail. Now it will be completely rng and mostly useless, scouts will suffer from this and it will only be so long till they start nerfing TDs becouse everybody starts to camp even harder(now its great when your entire team decides to camp base in random and die one by one...this will happen even more as it encourages such behavior).
    I believe all they needed to do is change HE behavior so it wouldnt care about armor and do just a little damage to everything(this could make it more usable even on normal tanks for example shooting t29s turret with 88mm for 20 dmg or something)... maybe unrealistic but nerf it in this way and imho it could work better than this
    btw that splash increase idea wouldnt work as it would kill usefulness of any hard cover(rocks, houses)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I bet you are a huge arty fan, how can you say that light's will suffer? My friends and I often play lights/scouts, and we often do some good damage, and scout for our heavies/TDs... And, arty was never "mostly useless". Have you ever played CW? Basicly every tank is a scout for the arty. And pls tell me how 3 arties encourage attacking... Yeah, I would leave cover and start attacking if there are like 3 Gwtiger like guns on the enemy side waiting someone to nuke as they can shoot anywhere (A "skilled" arty player can). Also I love how "artyn00bs" keep saying that "They will nerf TDs if you nerf arties, hurr-durr." Total bullshit! The arties, SPGs can shoot you while not having the line of sight! This means you can't shoot back, you have no chance to spot your enemy! They are just shooting from the end of the map, and can hit you, and do 1000 DMG easily from a few meters too! Even if you use a faster tank (And a half decent arty can hit youif you are close). If arties go away we finally can move around the map, use the terrain, not just hide behind some rocks, houses!

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    2. Boo boo arty tag. Go play warcraft

      Delete
    3. Arty is essential to break stalemates, when both sides are waiting around the corner for the first tank to appear. Such stands can only be resolved by an indirect fire - or coordinated flanking attack, which is rare and sometimes impossible. With arty nerfed, I'm not ever moving forward round the corner, I'll wait with the rest of my team for enemies to move in first and face our concentrated fire. And patience-deprived kids will surely go ahead and die :)

      Delete
    4. Arty is the worst "class of tanks" in wot, it involves little to no skill and is fairly random in its outcome.Sure there will be less arty now and thats what everybody wanted, but you will still get them in some battles and when you get them they will be worthless, with that severe nerf on accuracy,rof,aim and buff to damage it will be completely rng and those 1000dmg shots everybody complains about(even me when i play my arty, this should not happen, yes i play one arty line so i get idea where are safe spots for my 20 other tanks) will still be there, now with even more rage an randomness as arty would be glad for any direct hit in entire game with that accu. Thats why i was proposing big nerf to damage so it wouldnt randomly oneshot people.Maybe nerf flight time so it would became more skillfull to actualy hit something on the move. Thing is arty is designed to make players think( and lot of them have big problems with that), make them change position, not camp in the open etc.(yes i know it doesnt always work but even wg said that)
      Yes anyone can scout for anybody, but lights often scout ahead where nobody have direct line of fire(i dont mean suicide thats for group of players nobody like, except if you are on the other team:D)+ good arty player will support weaker flanks and stop enemies from fast flanking(i look at you lemmings).
      For TDs imagine this: 2 amx foch is siting on a choke point, there is no way to flank them and they are owning anything that comes in front of them becouse of useless arty cant force them back this will only encourage usage of prem shells on those amxs and everybody likes that aswell dont they.
      All i want is less rng in the game where i'd like to make a difference with my skill. With this patch they solve obvious problem with introducing more rng and thats bad in my book.
      Yeah and mmorpgs suck.

      Delete
    5. "Also I love how "artyn00bs" keep saying that "They will nerf TDs if you nerf arties, hurr-durr." Total bullshit!"

      This sentence makes next too non sense from what i have experienced while driving my JagdPzE100, i have heard COUNTLESS noobs babling about its gun is "op" etc etc etc. And this is the typical situation in every online game tbh, if enough butthurt crybabies keeps complaining they end up perhaps changing something that actually works!

      And no, i dont enjoy playing arty (too boring for me), only have a Bat Chat 155 because of CW.

      Delete
  8. Fail with the derp nerf. I can see them trying to dumb it down a little, but that much is pathetic. Will completely change the Tier 4, 5 and 6 battles. IMO, you should be able to be one-shotted more often than the game engine allows, and those derps allow for that...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As they won't go the route I'd like them to go (remove premium ammo for credits option) I'm glad they're nerfing the pen on the derp guns, people sling HEAT far too often. Those guns are perfectly fine with HE if you know where to shoot.

      -ccruler

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    2. On your final point - quite correct.
      I've played the pz4 with 105 a bit for fun and found it perfectly adequate with regular HE. Couldn't see the point of buying expensive heat shells for a tank I was running to pick up credits.
      HE was still plenty effective and still plenty fun. The only time it falls down is when you end up alone against a 1s.

      Delete
  9. And the soviet 122mm U-11 in the KV-1? it is not going to be nerfed?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one sane plays KV-1 with 122mm.

      Delete
    2. I love to play my SU-85 with 122, it just purely fun, and no HEAT is require for that.

      Delete
    3. Hey you
      You the one with Derp Su-85
      I like you

      Delete
    4. Sane, no. Hilarious, yes.

      I alternate between the 57mm and the U-11, because most players have no idea how to deal with either one. Tanks that are used to shrugging off hits from the 105mm can be rudely shocked at how hard the 12mm hits.

      Delete
  10. Well this will send the PzIV to the junkyard once and for all

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    Replies
    1. learn to use HE rounds, they're fine in that tank, you just have to hit the weaker armour spots, and you can still 1 or 2 shot many tanks.

      -ccruler

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    2. You don't aim with a derp, you point.

      Delete
  11. Finally the 105 derp nerf. One of the few blatantly dumb parts of WoT finally fixed!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It only became dumb when tier 5 no longer faced tier 8 and 9 on a regular basis.

      The whiners who wanted a narrower tier spread basically invented sealclubbing.

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    2. And funily, in most games you can see that they are whining that even a +-2 tier spread is bad. Some ppl just went full retard, and can't get out of it...

      Delete
    3. Actually, it only became dumb once they allowed anyone with silver to buy premium rounds. Prior to that premium rounds were rarely used.

      -ccruler

      Delete
  12. Re HEAT nerf. What about the lower tiers: T18, T82, Valantine AT etc?

    ReplyDelete
  13. probably the best patch in a long time heat nerf+arty nerf at least the game will become playable again

    ReplyDelete
  14. 104 pen is plenty when you are up against newbies showing you their 20mm side armour. If anything all this will do is make tier 5 derps cheaper to run because you are more likely to use HE.

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    Replies
    1. HE is all I was using in derp guns before anyways, so this nerf will not affect me in the slightest, well, except improve my survivability against people that love to sling HEAT rounds.

      -ccruler

      Delete
  15. Historically HEAT shells had a penetration that was roughly 150% of the shell diameter. If anything they should drop the damage on it rather than the penetration.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. WG and historical is not allow to exist in the same sentence, you just failed your exam.

      Delete
    2. So, how much damage did a HEAT shell do, historically?

      Delete
    3. @Anon: Well the current penetration is accurate for a 105mm at 150%.

      @Homer: The M67 HEAT shells for the M4 Howitzer carried a 1.33kg charge of Pentolite, a 56/44 mix of PETN/TNT that detonates 500m/s slower than C4. I'll leave you to figure out the specifics.

      Delete
    4. @Homer_J: So, how much damage did a HEAT shell do, historically?


      ALL :D

      Delete
  16. So then, what is going to be the point of the T92 anymore? Its benefit was the largest splash of all the arty. With all the splash nerfs the T92 is basically becoming one of the worst top tier arty if it keeps its current accuracy. No reason really to chose it over a more accurate 281 etc...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Don't worry, the other arties will get nerfed, and most likely this will be the one with the highest splash just like now. And, it will most likely loose some accuracy, so this patch is making Wold of Tanks, really World of TANKS :)

      Delete
    2. SPG is a tank, too - so is TD.

      Delete
  17. So the mad baby's bitched enough and got there way, that seems to be a trend in online games. and yet the high tier power creep continues

    ReplyDelete
  18. We were saying that the arty is damn OP since the closed beta, it's about time that they listened!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Only stupid people have been complaining about arty.

      The truth is, most top players that verbally hate on arty, hate on it not because it is OP, but because it forces them to divide their focus and be aggressive. Those two things keep the elite players from widening the gap between their stats and that of others.

      That reality no one wants you to know, and all these dumb players just follow the hate arty bandwagon. Arty is needed to balance this game, and if you nerf arty to oblivion or remove them, the game will stagnate into static sniper fests that no one will play.

      Arty prevents camping, only ignorant players believe otherwise.

      Delete
    2. I hate to say it, more often than not arty forces me to find cover and stay behind it rather than allowing me to be as aggressive as I'd like to be.

      -ccruler

      Delete
    3. Arty makes the game tactical. Without that, it would be a simple "point and click" shooter as COD or something. Maybe that's what teenagers want.

      Delete
    4. Too many arty causes camping, because presumption ' all arty is aiming for me ' is reasonable but false. They can't aim everywhere at once. But that is beside the point. The word is too many artys. With 3 it is decent backup for loners going for daring spotting points, with 5 it is all about which arty hits first while spots are given... Because the ratio of 1/5 is support while 1/3 is major force.

      People will still whine about arty even if they become useless... But I'd like to see why arty is nerfed when I can't even now keep up with their damage output compared to my other tanks. It is just impossible. Yes I deal consistent damage, but far less than in tanks. How is that OP if I can't beat the other tanks I drive? My winrates also worse on my SPGs in comparison, how is that OP ? If they would be OP, then how is it that I fail to have better stats on them?

      People whine because they have not learned the basics enough. Now WG strips the good players one of their advantage: Knowledge of arty usage.

      Delete
  19. Boo boo arty fags

    ReplyDelete
  20. What about the derp gun of the KV-2 and HEAT shells? Probably it will get nerfed, too.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. KV-2 is difficult enough to play with the derp as is even with HEAT, especially with its new tier spread since it became a Tier 6.

      Delete
    2. They are probably considering one at a time. I imagine KV-2 drivers use HEAT far more situationally than a current M4 driver, which can profit in a game with a dozen or so HEAT rounds fired.

      Delete
    3. >KV-2
      >HEAT

      Why did I need to use HEAT on my awesum KV-2? 20s reload + bouncing chance. Not worth. Better with HE coz doing damage

      Delete
  21. I get more and more no-arty battles and i hate them, they change into lemming trains. Games, in which every no-brainer has his two minutes... And outcome is totally random, as of course, everything by WG now.

    ReplyDelete
  22. How about changing the tier spread to 1? If Arty is OP, how come the same players that hate enemy arty complain that the arty on their team sucks? I've never had a team mate tell me, "You're doing too much damage...you're too OP."

    ReplyDelete
  23. Only 105 mm HEAT shells?

    Does that mean that KV-1 derp HEAT will remain the same?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. yes, so you can keep playing your kv1 with the derp gun and get recognized as a fucktard.

      Delete
    2. Oh noes, someone must have been got oneshotted by a derp gun. Cry some more please, I would like to drink some precious whine made from your tears.

      Delete
  24. Hey SS, do you know that ONE shell can have TWO different penetration on TWO different gun/tank?
    HEAT shell of high tier french arties: 232 on the Lorraine's and 233 on the Bat.
    HEAT shell of the M103: 330 with the T122 and 381 with the M58.
    This means the M4/Pz4 CAN keep their current penenetration, however they can still lose it which would be good balance wise.

    Zee

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    Replies
    1. that's right. both 105mm guns on Tiger II use the same shells but have different penetration values

      Delete
    2. http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-trolling-or-just-stupid-thumb.jpg

      Delete
  25. Ok, I checked HEAT ammo and sadly WG nerf is historically accurate.
    One however could ask for the APDS shell, 10,5 cm Pzgr. 39 (TS)with a penetration of 90 mm at 500 m but according to Waffen und Geheimwaffen des Deutschen Heeres 1933-1945 by Fritz Hahn it remained experimental.

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  26. with new 105mm pen, I still can one shot tier 4 and do serious damage to tier 5. 105mm pen is only risky when you face higher tier tank. So low tier tanks still suffer like before.

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  27. The 105 nerf, TBH really not affecting low tier at all, the biggest loser of it is VK2801. It can still fkup other scouts like a boss, but no more backstabbing to heavies now.
    Combine with the arty nerf, heavies seems have a great buff this time.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Those arty nerfs are going in wrong direction. Big alpha is the issue.

    Everyone that thinks otherwise please don't complain about arty not helping you with that TD with invulnerable armour or completely bossing heavy in hull down position after the patch, cause arty response to threats will be very slow (aiming time and spread) and inaccurate (splash and accuracy nerfs).

    Like everyone else I don't like matches with 5 high tier artys per side, but I don't love no arty rounds either. High alpha is the biggest issue. Make it half or even third what it is now, make HE arty shells have more chance to destroy external modules, increase splash, increase firing rate. Here you go, a support unit.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Voice of reason.. not a lot is found around..

      Delete
    2. WG office feedback ideas:

      'We have now gathered again to see how WoT is doing. Seems our arty nerfs have been succesful. SPGs are close to useless and we have less complaints, but seems like they are complaining about the hulldown tanks being impenetrable. We should fix this as our next patch... oh and they are complain about some TDs too, maybe we should have a look in that. Also meds seem to be too fast to be hit, light tanks even worse. Heavys seem to kick mediums asses too often...

      What shall we nerf next?'

      Delete
    3. Thats great, the game will soon become like 15 AMX40s fighting 15 AMX40s, it gonna be ggggggrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaattttttttttt fun.

      Delete
    4. please give up artybobs, ur OP rape machines gets finnaly put turned down to what they where (in closed beta) a SUPPORT unit, not a main dmg dealer, and lol @ all baddies saying only noobs want arty nerfed, i know A LOT of ppl with 60-70% win, and they mostly HATE arty...

      best would be no arty at all, but mega nerf after mega nerf, until even the biggest arty diehard has stopped playing is also fine, no arty means tds can finnaly play as they should, mediums can attack and FLANK while heavys can sidescrape and hulldown, in other words, tanks can do what they are supposed to do... (and not hide behind a rock `snipe`) campers will hate this, ppl who want to move and attack will love this.

      so far 8.6 looks good :)

      ps: and i got +20k games and 63% winratio, so unlike the arty fanboys commenting `arty is needed`, im not a baddie with no clue on how to play.. :XD

      Delete
    5. Except it is sarcastically how they hate arty... Or then they are actually just whining bad players. I think sarcastic is more realistic.

      I hate personally arty, but not hate hate, but just hate the luck of being struck... Very rarely and when they do they mostly do insignificant damage. I like how arty is now, but I would reduce them to 3 per match. That is enough and the whining would become much less. 4-5 is tad pressuring for normal noob to try to get the forward positions, they stagger and stay behind. The one who gets more advanced positions most likely win.

      SPG where great addition, back in old beta they where ultimate lazer guns. Then they got it right, and it has been right since then. Maybe those french arties are tad too fast... some meds can't even catch them on top configuration... and that is wrong. But overall I welcomed artilleries as good addition to the game. They contribute, but not too much.

      Delete
    6. Oh wow, how brave you are waving your E-pen around with all the win ratios and what not, adding to that how many people you know with 60 -70% win ratios and still posting as anon?

      As a second, oh, please, tell me more about what tanks should and should not do, I would like to hear more from someone who surely been fighting in one sometime along his long life to be making claims like that.

      And as a third, reread what I wrote if you didn't understand that, cause I didn't either whine about nerfing OP arties nor am I an arty fanboy as you can check in my stats because I have posted providing my nick.

      So good luck to you and your hate, I hope you will live happily ever after in mutual hatred.

      Delete
    7. They just won't hear you out. You're marked for life after even about thinking arty is alright or that they should not be put to extinction... Sad is the day when they obliterate one tank tree from arty nation just because noobs keep falling to clever arty traps and trick shots from unexpected angle.

      Delete
    8. Aaaand here we go again.
      Now, I challenge you all:
      in how many games has the arty done the most of the damage, if we are talking about somewhat similarly fairing teams? Like, a good close match where the losers had killed 13 of the winners, leaving 2 tanks alive on the battlefield.

      How many times has the arty done most of the damage in that team? I dare to challenge you: less than 20% of the time. Yes. I'm serious. Dead serious.

      Then look at the LOOSING team. Guess what. Who's the top damage dealer MORE than 20% of times? Arty. The rest just died. Been there, done that: my best damage/killratios with arty have been nearly always a losing game. Usually it means I'm the last one still standing after dealing 3,5k damage, and enemy is swarming on me. I might even do 2k more, still lose.

      But in a winning round the damage dealt will be around 2k or below - since there simply isn't time to shoot enough; advancing team takes the chances of arty support away by killing all the targets too quick.

      PS.
      The example arty on this was AMX 13 F, but I haven't consistently dealed over 2,5k dmg even with GW Tiger. Slow rof, bad agility and accuracy tends to make it very difficult to hit anything at all. Yes, there are those occasional 6k+ dmg rounds, but I do have those on my tanks too. I've dealt nearly 10k dmg with a heavy tank - and still LOST. Arty didn't do 2k together (GWP, GWT), even though they did hit.

      So yes, after arty nerf you will be complaining of TD's - I bet you on that. That's why I'm actually building up on american, german, british, french and soviet TD trees... So I'll get 'em all, and I'm gonna rape artyhaters asses and hard. Then laugh at them, cos the idiots wanted arty nerfed the wrong fucking way.

      Also SerB is incapable of working WITH the community, only against it. At least that's what's been said all around the place...

      - Aquatica, EU

      Delete
  29. Wargaming is starting to lose me Keep this stupid fucking nerfing shit up to appease the fucking cry babies, I will be gone and the game will slowly get reduced to "15 AMX40s fighting 15 AMX40s"

    ReplyDelete
  30. Good news for Waffentr├Ąger E-100 :)
    -Mppol

    ReplyDelete
  31. Arty nerf and 105 HEAT derp nerf

    man...can this day gets any better?

    ReplyDelete
  32. arty would be perfectly fine if they abandom GPS and make them set manual aim

    ReplyDelete

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