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Apr 3, 2013

"Buff my tank!" - E-100

By Zarax

Hello and welcome to the second edition of "Buff my tank!"

The "Buff my tank!" articles are meant as an historical way to look at some tanks considered underpowered in game and ways to improve their combat abilities discussed by the original german engineers.
Beware that while being sometimes ironic in tone, the article treats about both costs and benefits of every choice and it most likely will never be listened by WG as suggestion.

The E-100 is often defined as "Gold Ammo" tank in game due to high reliance on the expensive HEAT shells.
In this article we will use Panzer Tracts 6-3 to explore the most extreme features the german engineers discussed during the tank implementation, while for the tank's history SilentStalker's article provides already excellent information.

As the E-100 never reached operational status and only a half-finished hull was done, we have no battlefield experience outside of virtual one to gather information from.
In the end it's likely E-100 and Maus would have worked as propaganda tanks or used as bunkers during the defence of Berlin rather than actively on the battlefield due to their logistics issues as those tanks did not exactly sip fuel which was extremely scarce in 1945 and I wouldn't want to be assigned to their maintenance.

First of all, E-100 is already somewhat above historical specs as side turret armor was planned to be a scant 80mm unlike the 150mm thickness in game, this removes a quite large potential weak spot as even scouts could have hurt it.

Of course, one could consider the original Krupp Tiger-Maus turret:

It has however the "slight" drawback of being 12.5 tons heavier and having a decently sized cupola as weakspot plus the viewports on the side, limiting tank agility and likely being slower to turn.

Another option that was considered is the MB501 engine planned at 1500HP output, which would bring the power to weight ratio from approximately 9.2HP/ton to 11.5HP/ton, making the tank slightly more agile although the torpedo boat engine was quite a bit bigger than the Maybach HL 234/295.
This means that the engine module would get bigger (would it even fit without major hull modifications? It was meant for the earlier, longer-hulled project) and I'd be willing to bet WG would also slap an higher fire chance.

Now, about firepower, what is often considered the biggest problem.
First of all, longer 15cm cannons and the 17cm one were considered for the STUG E-100, aka the Jagdpanzer E-100 we have in game.
On the contrary, during development the 128 L/55 cannon was strongly suggested as an alternative as the shells were lighter and easier to handle while more than adequate against anything it was planned to face.

The answer here probably lies in ammunition choice, but as the 15cm L/38 (which is often mentioned as L/37) does not have a penetration table from WWII we cannot realistically say. In my opinion, by the time the gun would have been ready it would have used either a modified 15cm SFH 18 concrete-piercing round or just a mix of HEAT and HE ammo, which was enough to mission kill any WWII era tank as shown by the russian 152mm howitzers.

 So, here comes the final verdict:

Very little room for improvement is left.

Unfortunately the fact that it was meant from the start to be a cheaper, easier to produce Maus means that engineers focused on things that could have been produced sooner with available means rather than making a super-tank, especially as the E-series were often seen with hostility by many both in the army and in competing firms.

Thank you for reading and see you in the next article!


  1. no problem, I like my E-100 as it is: a gold-spamming siema-mobile :D

    1. Your "siema-mobile" made me laugh so unstoppingly xD Gonna use it from now on, love the name <3

  2. If only it could have its penetration buffed at least to 250 - it wouldnt make me laugh every time it tries to penetrate my tank.
    (My Vk45P vs E100 - 5 shots, all bounced in close combat).

  3. Introduction of gold ammo for creds rehabilitated this tank.
    Before this happened the gun pen could and should have been buffed to ~250 for balance.
    As stated, no reliable pen tables are available anyway.

    1. funny, because in 0.8.0 I actually got some quite nice stats soloing and brawling the enemy to death
      didnt need any gold and gold actually made it harder to play, because its turret became once again a huge weakspot

  4. The real Maus would have have faced laser guided artillery. That right there is the solution, remove arty.

    1. no it wouldn't. First laser wasn't until 1960.

    2. I believe that was just a typo, and the original statement was "would not(never) have faced".

    3. The remove arty solution is as good as the remove the E-100 solution imho.

    4. Artillery should shoot more frequently doing far less damage and have larger splash, harassing fire not instant kill. Any game that takes a minute to load into a battle where you can't re-spawn should not have one-shot kill weapons.

  5. well im simply in love with sound when gun fires :) nothing else make me smile like 800hp gone on enemy tank :P
    i even loved it when it wasnt gold ammo for credits, i simply knew when i can penetrate and when i cant, so i enjoyed it

    thanks for the article! ;)

    1. Yeah.. I love that too.
      With the stock gun of my Russian Tier 7 tank destroyer.

      I feel kinda cheated when I have to beg for hits like that in my T10 heavy tank.
      E-100 is a poor joke right now.

  6. ok what about an alternative then?
    germans allready have a slow under gunned havy

    1. Sorry, we ran out of high tier german tanks.
      The only things left are Maus II (imho reserved for Porsche line rebalance) and Tiger-Maus (aka the slower, longer early E-100 project using a Maus-like turret).

    2. well then i have two bad ideas:

      First the unhistorical one: give it a version of JT gun
      Second logic fail: erase it and make E75 a T10, it is smaller has god armour and is more agile ( it would get HP nad armour buff)

      apart from that i dont see how the problem of E 100 can be solved

  7. Meh, the tank is terrible without gold ammo.
    With it, it's a different story, but IMO still a huge barn.

  8. Good article :D Since I'm a German fanboi ;)


  9. I don't think the E-100 is serious UP. It could use a little pen buff agreed, BUT with the 12,8cm I can play it without a lot of prem ammo. I tried the 15cm but even with gold I have better results with the 12,8.
    It's a really good tank imo and unstoppable on map with good cover.
    If you have 5 arties it gets a bit difficult on open maps but lets face it, thats what arty is for. Not a problem of the tank.

  10. I wish other than Wikipedia there was a source I could site for this, but even in that article it's listed that the E-100 had a plan to carry a 173mm main gun which is most likely the Kanone 18. I have advocated for this extensively in the past. The counter-argument was always that the gun wouldn't fit in the turret but I dispute that with a simple solution - use the Mausturm. The only real disadvantage there is the 10mm thinner mantlet, and the gun elevation and depression wouldn't be the greatest, but you'd at least have some serious punch at a 2.7-3.0 rpm rate of fire (3.0 with full crew, rammer, vents, etc).

    1. Mausturm was supposed to use the same guns as E-100.

      This is pretty much the best summary on the matter:

    2. I've seen this clip before. If I read it correctly, it's basically saying that in the development stage, one side preferred the 15cm over the 17cm, and that the Maus *chassis* was too tall with the sighting equipment to be a feasible design. Using the Mausturm turret or the E-100's current turret however doesn't address the common argument that the breech and elevation blocks are too big to fit in the turret. The main concern with the huge Kanone 18 was elevation and depression causing the breech to strike the roof in full depression or the floor in full elevation, which could be easily addressed with a limitation on each.

      I'd also like to add, that in my original suggestion, the E-100 could have been a "Swiss Army Knife" in terms of usage with two extra unlockable turret and gun options - one being a Mausturm which would lead to a 173mm K18, or an E-75 turret or buffed version of one with the 128mm KwK44 L/55 with a faster rotational speed, aim time, accuracy and RoF. This way the E-100 could be tailored to the way the owner wanted to play.

      Stock - current turret + 150mm (slightly vague gun)

      Longer-range engagement - E-75 turret or modded one + 128mm (distance 'sniper' version)

      Brawler - Mausturm + 173mm K18 (big hurt, slow rotation, slow RoF, massive alpha, big pen at close/mid range)

    3. The 17 cm wouldn't fit inside the turret ring at all, it would be impossible to load and would have no depression or elevation. Also it is completely historically inaccurate for the Maus/E-100 turm to mount such a gun. The E-75-style turret is also a slap in the face to history.

      You also have to realize that the Germans never tried to mount such a gun inside any tank turret. The 17 cm and the longer 15 cm guns were proposed to be on the chassis in some form of superstructure, not a turret.

      Another flaw in your plans is that the E-100 turm has the same room as the Mausturm does.

    4. You can *say* all these things, but there's no proof of any of these things. I'll agree the elevation and depression would be an issue, but other than that, we're talking about vehicle heights on the maus chassis first. The Maus turret is physically longer front to back, which means there's more internal workspace unless it's grossly narrower than the current turret (doubtful).

      The biggest issue here as you pointed out was reloading or in this case, shell capacity. I'm more than happy to concede the breech would be larger and would recoil farther back into the turret, and compared to the moderately sized 150, shell count would be far less, but take a good look at the Fv215 183, and tell me about the gun not fitting, or the ammo it can or cannot carry.

      Give me an E-100 with Mausturm and the Kanone 18 and maybe 18 shells and I'd be a pretty happy tanker.

    5. In addition, about the E-75 turret, we're not doing *anything* against history because if you really want to split hairs, the E-100's turret was never completed and a Mausturm would have been used until one could be finished/fitted.

      Having an E-75 turret or a beefed up version of one housing a smaller caliber but more accurate gun would allow for faster rotation, a lighter tank, and a smaller cross-sectional target when facing it head on - all advantages there.

    6. The German Wiki says the E-100 turm is too small for the 17 cm gun, you can also read the information in the picture Zarax posted and you'll see the Maus II turm(E-100 turm) was to have a larger turret ring than the regular Mausturm. Put two and two together and you get it doesn't fit.

      Another piece of evidence is that the 15 cm L/68 takes up the whole turret if you overlay it, now imagine overlaying a 17 cm gun that would likely take up more space than the 15 cm L/68 gun would.

      I'd like to keep with the tank Germany designed, not the one you pulled out of thin air.

    7. Wouldn't an E-100 with an E-75 turret look like one of those body-builders with a tiny head? XD

    8. @Brice - you're talking about turret rings, I'm talking about turret accommodating space in cubic feet. You're talking greek, I'm talking Italian. A ring goes into the floor of the turret, fine, I get that, the remainder of the turret's work-space... this is the issue I'm mentioning. WG has done a pretty bizarre job of making up stuff along with rumors and bits and pieces, and this wouldn't be any different. Nowhere does it say "the gun will not fit in the turret" ... nowhere. The Ring is a resolvable issue that's easily remedied with an Ausf. B marque or an asterisk next to the name to denote a modified version. It's not like this'll ever even happen anyway, but to try to downplay it is foolish.

      @ fattoler : Basically you'd end up with what Trumpter I believe made a model for which can be seen here :

    9. Uh, turret ring diameters were always a pretty big constraint in tank design (or more specifically gun choice) you know. Something to do with recoil absorption and suchlike I understand - an sich you could always modify the turret design itself if mere volume was needed (within reason), after all.

      The thing with enlarging the 'ring is AFAIK that you pretty much need to widen the hull to do it - and I doubt I need to explain the implications in the context of an already super-large vehicle as in this case.

    10. Uhh, no.
      It specifically talks about Assault guns on Maus and E-100 chassis when mentioning the larger guns so it's all about casemates, not turret.

  11. Hmm...I made this thread some time ago, you might find some of the things interesting:

    The turret placement, LFP angle, and stuff.

    Vito out

    1. German engineers moved transmission to the front as there was not enough room at the back, unfortunately that's historical.

      Oh, and the planned engine never managed to reliably reach over 800HP, while shortening the tank made bigger engines impossible to fit.

      For all of this we have to thank the designer who decided Tiger II size engine compartement was enough.

    2. I recomend reading panzer tracks 6-3 page 54 in the end (You have most likely read it before). Talking about the transmission. The E-100 was the same hull as the Tiger-Maus, we have no grasp what the end result would look like. The part in my post you reefer to was more like a what the future bring.

    3. The hull was shortened and slightly widened between the first 170 ton draft and the final 130 ton one, not to mention the design was changed from rear to center turret.

      On page 54 it says that rear transmission required moving the engine forward and changing the hull layout...

      One could almost see *troll* an E-100 ausf M!

  12. Well I'll write it in my native language SilentStalker can translate it if he wanna do so

    E100 nepotrebuje buff ale kompletni predelani proste a jednoduse udelat z ni mene Mause ale vice onu odlehcenou variantu tezkeho tanku neco ve smyslu IS-7 s IS-4

    Vzhledem k tomu ze ve hre mame stroje ktere nikdy neexistovali ani na nakresech, jsou to proste vytvory ze sveta WG vyvojaru kde neni problem sebrat tanku 10 mm z pancire a prezto mu pridat na vaze 2 tuny bych se nebal predelat E100 nasledujicim zpusobem:

    Odebrat 150mm kanon, soucasnou vez vymenit za Adler turm (pripadne jinou mene pancerovanou a lehci vez), pridat novej 128mm kanon (budto z JT) nebo novou variantu zkratka lepsi penetracni vlastnosti nez u Maus kanonu, snizit hodnotu opancerovani tanku (stejne uz tak ma E100 horsi pancire nez jaky mela v realu met viz panzernet) tim by se docililo snizeni vahy a pridal bych ji maximalku na tech 40km/h co bylo zamyslenejch v realu.

    Dale bych(a nejenom u E100) umoznil nemeckejm tankum lepsi zoomovani s ohledem na fakt kterej uznavaj i historici a sice ze nemci disponovali tema nejlepsima optikama (a dodnes je od nich odebira celej svet spolu s kanonama a motorama) tenhle fakt doted nebyl nikde in game zohlednen stejne tak bych zauvazoval o zlepseni dosahu u nemeckejch radii (koneckoncu novej Leo ma dosah JENOM 750 zatimco T62 ma 850) selskej rozum by asi kazdymu rekl ze pouzivat puskohled u pistole nebo u praku zatimco pri strelbe se sniperkou bez puskohledu me tam maj chybet i miridla je proste kravina a prece jenom pokud je clovek za nemecke tanky stavenej do role snipera musim podle toho met i patricny radia a ne aby se me stavalo ze v jednom platonu si vedle sebe stoji IS-3 a T32 a strilej to do dalky na maximalni dosah coby tanky ktery by se meli dostat souperum do tela a ja s KT si musim jeste znacne popojet pred ne aby se me enemak ukazal na obrazovce (pri nastaveni maximalni vykreslovaci vzdalenosti) protoze mam nejslabsi radio za jeden z nejvic sniper heavy tank toho tieru tak asi neni neco v poradku.

    1. Příště se prosímtě podepiš a zkus to spíš anglicky.

      Basically, this player suggests E-100 should be made (unhistorically) lighter, lighter Adlerturm should be added with a 128mm gun from the Jagdtiger, reduce the tank weight (reduce armor) and set the maximum speed to 40 km/h. He also suggets better zoom for tanks (because they had superior optics), better radio range) in order to make it a durable sniper.

    2. just give it a modified JT gun and see how it performs

  13. Wasn't there a 12.8 m L/70 gun in Panzer Tracts 6-3 which was proposed for the Maus early in the development. In Heavy Jagdpanzer it is mentioned again with early Jagdtiger development. I was wondering whether or not the E-100 could recieve this gun. I'm not sure how it would exactly compare to the 12.8 L/55 and L/61.

  14. every one thinking the tank is UP, i recommend Scytales E100 guide(as long as u understand german)

    Most people fail to understand that the 15cm is a
    howitzer(actually a highpen howitzer). The choice of the right ammo type at the right moment is the key to this tank.

    theres no need for gold only, but only noobs would play AP only. And you always have the opportunity to fire a 500dmg HE shot, even at longer range.

    Watch some replays of this guy...

    Buffing this Tanks AP penetration can easily make it OP

    1. So we will fire HE with even less dmg than IS-7 give u by AP shell and still we will reload it much slower than IS-7? Realy master mind can come with something like that.

    2. Well.. he said - right ammo type, in the right time.

      By the way you don't need to aim so carefully with HE, just autoaim and boom. (to kill low HP tanks, or hit targets far away)

    3. Exactly...f.x. u r facing an IS7 at mid range with 500 HP

      U can bounce an AP and scream "Buff e100, f**ing WG"
      or just use your howitzer and shot him with HE.

      Also there is no need for Gold on T9's.

      Or u can go for Max DMG of 950 (+25% 1180DMG) = with HE if u penetrate (Jagdtiger side f.x.)

      dont blame the Tank, read the guide and watch some of his replays..its amazing


    4. I can do the same on my KV-2 actually

  15. I can think of 2 things:
    1. There was a lot of talk about the E-100 lower plate being at 52 degrees, not 50. Any small improvement is welcome.
    2. Buff engine anyway, as its the Ausf.B version of the engine, yet identical to the Ausf.A 100 more horse power would be good.

  16. I like my E-100 just fine, the only sad part is that the 128 isn't really an option; it simply isn't accurate enough to bother with.

  17. Just move the E-100 down a Tier (nerf it a little first) or remove it from the tree (put it somewhere else) and replace it with an E-75 Ausf. M, equipped with the Jagtiger's 12.8cm L/61 gun (nerfed for balance).

    For those of you saying that the E-75M never existed, just remember that the E-50M never existed either, not even in blueprints (both the E-50 and E-75 were in blueprints).


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