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Apr 3, 2013

Silentstalker's Top 10 Wargaming Fails

Author: Silentstalker

Hello everyone,

here are (in my opinion) the worst Wargaming fails, in a very general order. Most refer to the EU server (I have no idea what sort of crap is going on on the RU one and only vaguely understand the NA server issues). These things however do influence everybody.

10 - SerB trolling

SerB is the main developer and the creative director (I think), seated in Minsk. He quite often answers the questions to the developers. Nothing bad with that - only one thing: he likes to troll. A lot. Answers like "go play Tetris" and "go back to school" are popular in RU regions (SerB is vastly popular there), but when translated to English other languages (as they do, not only by me, but by other people too), they sound just rude and offensive. It's not that big of a deal, but a lot of people on EU server would just get insulted.

Storm is usually not trolling, but even he can be really rude:

"Hahaha. Suffer, faggot, your suffering makes us happy!"

9 - Russian historical bias

Everybody knows that nazi names, pictures and symbols are not allowed in the game and on Wargaming forums - and rightfully so, the nazi ideology is one of the worst evils that ever happened in mankind's history. However, at the same time, we have Wargaming developers naming themselves "KGB" and using Smersh avatars. I think we all can agree that Smersh and KGB were no "regular" organisations - they murdered thousands of people, dragged thousands more to die in Soviet Gulags and the only difference between KGB/Smersh and Gestapo/SS is that the nazis lost the war. The shameful Soviet propaganda is illegal in some European countries (Czech republic included, the 1948-1989 Communist party was banned here) and the "Stalinist" Soviet tank decal, promoting the mass murderer Stalin is as nasty as if the Germans wrote "SS Mann" on their tanks.

8 - Broken Clanwars

Clanwars are supposed to be the ultimate endgame World of Tanks equivalent to Warcraft's raiding, yet somehow, even after more than a year, they are still in beta phase and simply don't work. Everything gets broken down and there is hardly a month without Clanwars freeze. Now, I am no expert on Clanwars and I don't even like this sort of stuff, but it's absolutely clear that something's really wrong with them. The inability of Wargaming to produce a working endgame mechanism in 2 years is... not good.

7 - EU Moderators

Moderators are not Wargaming's employees in strictest sense. They are recruited from regular players and paid some chump change (200 Euro or so?) to police the forums. Naturally, that reflects their quality. Much like the "private security" mallcop companies, that accept simply anyone, Moderator corps on EU server specifically are swarming with (in better case) powertripping idiots, in worst case small people getting even their enemies thru power abuse. Complaints against moderators are not taken seriously, the appeal system does not work and the selection process is dubious (Remember the Czechout affair? A part of it was Czechout pushing thru a moderator called Idahou by making his warning points "disappear". That guy's still there and there were several complain threads opened in last months alone in the Czechoslovak section). Other common "feature" is different punishment for the same offense. Only yesterday I've seen a moderator on EU1 general chat ban a guy for saying two words in Polish, while literally in seconds, some other guy was spamming in German - he didn't get banned.

6 - Dysfunctional EU Q&A

Enough said here. While RU server gets answers and explanations from developers daily (and NA has The_Chieftain, who does an amazing job), EU is left in the dark. There is some guy named Quasar, who is allegedly a developer and who runs a joke of a Q&A (with a rate of 5 answers per month). It used to be much better, when Overlord (a really great guy by the way) used to operatively (immediately, imagine that!) answer the questions - and all that while being (now comes the big shock) very polite. Insane, right? Well, I guess I should thank them, most of the readers of this blog probably come here for the Wargaming news :)

5 - Fake tanks

Enough has already been written on the topic of Failowe being fake. Of course, it's not the only case - the T28 Prototype is mostly made up, E-50 Ausf.M is nearly made up, some German tanks have unhistorical armor and guns, the T71 is a mashup of two models as far as I know, the ingame Chaffee is a historian's nightmare and so on. Of course, it wouldn't be such a problem.... IF Wargaming didn't fanatically enforce historical data on other vehicles. Buff an underperforming vehicle? "Why, it's historical!"

4 - Impotent Wargaming Paris community section

This is something I criticized for a long time, both before my ban and after. The EU community section is completely impotent. They can't do anything on their own, they have absolutely no power (all decisions that matter are taken in Minsk) and their PR is a nightmare. Now, I don't think they are bad people. Supercharge has some nice articles, Challenger is great (what I do somehow see as a problem is that it is my impression he doesn't talk to us "common folks", but only to the cadre of soldiers/war veterans in his section). Blanchard I have absolutely no idea about - seems like a nice guy, not posting very much. Ectar - again, probably a nice guy in real life, but by GOD, they are all so... I don't know... empty? No improvisation, no changes, everything has to be scheduled from Minsk - in the past, this led to some pretty funny fails. Remember that time the random battles were flooded with (fresh in the shop) Type 59 tanks? It was a disaster, there were like 15 vs 15 Type 59 battles and at one point I just quitted for a while, because for someone grinding a regular T7 tank it was unplayable. A few weeks into this nightmare, Wargaming EU made a post on the portal about how wonderful Type 59 is and how to play it. A perfect shot in the foot, forums started raging that the players are getting trolled and from what I know, the EU community organizers *facepalmed* at the post, but they HAD to post it, because it was sent from Minsk. Eventually, the post was removed, but not before a huge backlash.
Another case was the "Stalinec" issue. A player posted in the general section that he finds the Soviet decal "Stalinec" offensive. Naturally, a debate was started and in the end, Ectar promised he would personally pass the complaint to Minsk. He kept his promise - only to be openly mocked by SerB (or Storm) in the Russian Q&A thread. Says a lot about how much Minsk respects WG Paris.
And don't let me even get started about the "Voroshilov was a strategic mastermind" affair, that didn't make the Polish players very happy...

Oddly enough, Wargaming US seems to be a LOT more different and independent. They have The_Chieftain (a sort of military expert and developer mix), who - while he probably hates my ass - actually REPLIES daily on stuff the way Overlord did - so don't tell me it isn't possible.

3 - 83mm HE shell fiasco

A quick recap: from the RU version of patch 0.8.4 it was found out, that 83mm HE shells would basically quadruple in price, making a huge profit possible. This info did spread like a wildfire and people bought a LOT of 83mm HE shells, only for WG Europe to announce the price wouldn't quadruple, but only double, so those who "invested" like this wouldn't be getting crap. Subsequently a LOT of people raged, because some invested literally millions of credits and some even sold their vehicles in order to make profit.
The price reduction itself was not that big of a problem. The biggest problem was the fact that - unlike the Europeans, the Russians DID get the price quadrupled (it was lowered weeks after the Russians recieved the 0.8.4 patch) and some made quite a lot of money on this. Apparently, all players are equal, but some are more equal than others.
The second issue was the PR handling of the situation. EU staff was completely clueless, only Ectar was actually attempting to explain and they let the shitstorm get into giantic proportions - it took two days for the forums to calm down somewhat and I bet some people still feel pretty crappy when they remember the whole damn thing.

2 - EU supertest handling

Where to start? I have been talking to a few supertersters for some time and it is my impression the Supertest was a mess. Everything was in Russian (the english translations were done by volunteers) and EU players were generally treated like 2nd class citizens. A lot of Russians displayed an anti-European attitude and at least one moderator went from what I know on a nasty anti-European rant. Needless to say, this backfired by disgruntled supertesters starting to leak stuff. Make no mistake: it wasn't only Europeans who leaked stuff, at least one of the leaks I got was a Russian and no, it was not the one of the two who got punished (so we can expect more leaks in the future). In the end, all the EU supertesters were sacked, which might seem a logical step, but then again, the question is, whether the leaks were the result of bad people being bad, or of Wargaming's attitude towards EU supertesters.
Naturally, another reason is the fact that Wargaming just keeps too many secrets. A sneak peek here and there would do wonders...

1 - Czechout affair

Need I say more? A quick summary: a WG employee was fixing competitions (plus a bunch of other stuff), it was made public and the employee was kicked out after an epic shitstorm. I am sure all of us from the EU server remember that.

Honorable mentions: some might remember the "Design your Porsche vehicle" contest from last year, that was a disaster (took 3 months or so to pick "winners" and in the end, they appeared to be picked at random, which caused a rage). Czech "Design your own competition" contest - the results simply disappeared and noone heard of it ever again. Ingame illogical bugs (0 damage hits), that can be seriously annoying. The Red Screen of Death - that was fortunately fixed, but not before haunting the game for months. The Pearl River map screenies - Wargaming gave out "exclusive" content to some bloggers and streamers and told everyone it's exclusively for them - much to their surprise, the same screenies appeared all over the internet at the same time and boy did the people feel stupid.

I am sure there are many more you could mention. Truth to be told, there is a lot of room for improvement. But it's not all bad. World of Tanks is a great concept and a good game - and I personally enjoy it. Let's hope these "thingies" get fixed in the future.



  2. I love the devs' trolling. Just wish they wouldn't use it as an excuse not to do anything worthwhile for a change.

  3. Thank you for not talking about the non-existant Russian bias about tank stats

  4. Oh, is there still the premium ammo-auto-refill bug?
    I mean, it's just unfair sometimes. :/

  5. I agree with everything, but imo it could be summarized in the difference treatment between the Russian community and the rest, Q & A, lag of general information, patches, etc. (points 2,3,4 and 6)

  6. Well goign through this:

    SerB Trolling - not really an EU issue as he is posting in Russian on the Russia server. It you translate and someone in the EU gets upset and him calling a russian player an idiot is it really an issue?

    Moderators - I think the need a bit more of them with a bit more initiative. There's loads of foul language and abuse, spam and off-topic all over the Gameplay Discussion. There is less moderation than other game forums where no-one is paid. They need to get a grip and at least have a special whine forum and punt the stuff in there.

    Shells - It was an exploit, if they were being vicious they'd have left the price unchanged and we'd have taken a 50% loss. Merficully they didn't However they can solve this in future by only ever increaseing the price of an item by 100% at a time.

    Supertesters - I imagine this was a matter of someone losing their temper in Minsk and ordering them all "to be taken outside and shot". If they wanted better PR they could have wound it down quietly without any big announcement. The Supertester thread was wierld though with people outraged that they wouldn't be paid. Still surprised by the mess.

    1. "Shells - It was an exploit, if they were being vicious they'd have left the price unchanged and we'd have taken a 50% loss. Merficully they didn't However they can solve this in future by only ever increaseing the price of an item by 100% at a time. "

      The majority of the shitstorm was about the lack of equality, as is Silents point. And the PR desaster afterwards.

    2. To be honest I don't care what happens on the other servers as I don't have to play against those players so no-one is getting an in-game advantage over me.

      They could give every Russina server player a free Tier X tank and a troupe of dancing girls and it wouldn't matter a dot.

    3. WTF are you saying man? Operating with basic math skills is an exploit now? Get your head out your ass. You could always earn on anything which price has risen for more than 2x. If there was any fault here it was in WG, as they've failed in math... To be honest I could care less about the HE shells issue, if not for the fact that Russians were allowed to earn gazzilions of credits this way, while the rest of the world got showed a middle finger... Very typical for WG.

  7. It's not pro-Nazi to point out that the Soviets killed more people than all of WW2 combined, let alone the Nazis in particular. Grow up.

    1. And the soviets even killed their own if they did not charge :(

    2. Anonymous, I'm in no way a fan of the Communists/Russians, but what you write is factually incorrect. By any reckoning, the Germans were responsible for far more deaths than the Soviets.

    3. By any reckoning?

      Civilian deaths caused by Germany: 1.5-3 million
      Civilian deaths caused by USSR: 13-15 million

    4. DerpX, Soviet regime during its existance had killed over 40 MILLIONS people, mostly innocent Russians and other nations in USSR. The Great Hunger in Ukraine (Holodomor) itself was reason of approximately 3-7 mln people, and it was done by USSR rulers, including Stalin.

      Here, read a little about this:

      Nazis have never killed even half as much people as Soviets.

    5. Holy fuck! Did you actually read the article you quoted? Obviously not.

    6. the whole part about russian bias is so full of facepalm, tbh

    7. the table you qoute from wikipedia is the addition of all civilians dead in the war time. it does not say how many were killed by germans, or how many were killed by soviets.

      I'd love to see a more reliable source about this matter, but i lack one myself.

    8. This comment has been removed by the author.

    9. "The Cambridge History of Russia puts overall civilian deaths in the Nazi occupied USSR at 13.7 million persons including 2 million Jews." from We all know communist propaganda, how about Westerns, did they all tell the truth, objectively?

  8. I don't know what happens in EU community, bu with other statements totally agree with author.

  9. It may sound stupid, but WoT needs a direct competitor. Through competition with another you get better.

    P.S. What would nVidia do without the competition of AMD ?
    Almost everyone who uses a PC gets a benefit from their race.

    1. Sadly I think we have to wait very long until War Thunder introduces tanks. But in WoWp we can already see the competition. Improved render, getting better chat system before Wot and so on.

    2. Pics of tank tech trees are available for War Thunder.

    3. It's a fake with icons from WG game if I'm not mistaken :D

    4. The tank icon are from one of the Blitzkrieg games.

  10. "Only yesterday I've seen a moderator on EU1 general chat ban a guy for saying two words in Polish, while literally in seconds, some other guy was spamming in German - he didn't get banned."
    I love him! He doing it since closed beta :)

    1. BigBadVuk is specially strict towards Balkan community...

  11. I think you hate the Russians.

    1. Mm sorry he hates Russians? Wtf? He pointed out the facts about the evil KGB and the horrors of Stalinist regime. He never said he hates or dislikes the Russian people. Also he calls Nazis one of the worst things to happen to mankind.

    2. i think you are retarded.

    3. Just give him a couple of minutes. He will recognise it shotly. Aaany miute now.

    4. Relax, we have a stalinist troll around here. I'll just go and delete all his stuff, it's no biggie (duh, obviously, anyone who doesn't like Stalin&Co must be nazi, didn't you know?)

    5. Now I am sure that you hate the Russians.

      KGB = CIA, MI6
      KGB is a real organization in Belarus.

      For information. :)
      IS - Joseph Stalin
      KV - Klim Voroshilov
      I think we should change the name.

      PS: I am not a communist and my family knows what the Stalinist regime. I think you have been living in fear that tomorrow they come for you. But I have nothing against the label Stalin, but I am against the Nazi symbols.

    6. ... aaaand to a neutral party, Stalin is just as bad as Hitler. the only difference is that one lost and the other won. history is written by the hands of the victors... and history is full of liars.


    7. I disagree, history is written by the literate.

    8. I can't believe that people here get mad because of the use of nazi or soviet symbols. I think -and I hope I'm right when I say this- that every person on this blog is smart enough to not take seriously this matter. No one would promote political and dictatorial ideologies by using a certain symbol or tank on the game! That would mean that I support De Gaulle by using french tanks, or that I'm pro-Stalinist if I said german tnaks are OP. Oh and btw, Marcus, during the Cold War, KGB really cooperated with Stalin in order to make true "Stalin's dream" by sending motherland traitors to Siberia, and I'm pretty sure that no one that plays WoT thinks about the millions of people that Stalin killed when they're about to buy an IS tank.


  12. Perhaps, maybe WoT would be better if a company from another country made WoT instead of these monkies.

  13. Same issue with BigBadVuk. Got banned for giving one instruction to my platoon mate in Serbian. That guy really has mental issues...

    1. this arsehole banned me for saying negative stuff about the company what a prick

  14. Oh yeah, there's still more that can be added.

    Anyone remember the "Battle of Stalingrad" and "Wartime surplus" specials, where the forums lit up in rage over the lack of quality in these specials compared to the other nations. Hell, I remember posting a huge comment detailing what specials people liked, going on in large detail. Had a lot of people behind me with that. Ever since then our specials have had much more quality. ;)

    There's also the "Operation Crusader" special which had no British tanks what so ever in it, even though they had been out a few weeks earlier. EU community responded that the specials were made weeks in advance. If that's the case, why do they wait until the last minute to post them, and why did the Chinese get an immediate special for them.

    And there's the delay for news (We'll get it last, always, the lack of information such as the Q&A, and just generally high prices for gold products. Does WG realise that the EU is in debt (TBH, who isn't) so we don't have enough money to pay for insane prices. We don't need repair kits in the giftshop specials. They're cheaper paid seperately anyway.

    WG really doesn't like us Europeans.

    - saml6131

  15. mhh half of those "biggest WG fails ever" just show me why WG should never ever listen to THIS community.

    1. Indeed ....

    2. Your opinion is very important for us :)

      Hmmm... I dunno... maybe Wargaming doesn't listen because they consider us as bad as the Russians? :)

    3. cant agree more lol

  16. Why would The_Chieftain have a beef with you?

    1. We had an argument about the leaks *shrugs* But I doubt it's personal.

    2. Have to say I left the NA server and joined the EU because I found the Americans including Chief a bit full of self importance, hard to believe but I find the EU bunch a whole lot better.

  17. SS 8.5 Preview: New German Tanks

  18. 10. That damn SerB is trolling even on serious questions. Damn bastard.
    9. Bias at its finest.
    8. Not only CW is in 2 year updated-none state *takes glance at in-game chat*
    7. Best example is my first warning point : for unknown reason in Other. Basically point out of air.
    6. Too little players for such feature. Even less forum readers.
    Or simply too damn lazy - we saw that they do Sharlem Hake and catwalks :D
    5. Not enough tanks? Make 'em up - "Its historical according to our sources"
    4. WG EU has no balls :D
    3. WG favors the RU servers - what a surprise......(really big BS).
    2. Shows again how russians feel about other non-russian speaking countries.
    1. There is always a traitor.

    Yet biggest fail is that WoT developers still feel all imperialistic over Europe (damn SOVIETS!!).


  19. Well if you dont like to play game made by SOVIETS, dont play it if it bothers you so much.

    1. I have a love for tanks. Choice is an illusion :D

    2. You know its funny, WG can hardly be more capitalistic, yet they get called soviets :)

    3. Not economically - psychologically, in their brains.

    4. Exactly, Western devs aren't really the kind to insult their own playerbase to their face, even if they feel that way. There may be some developers that do, but unfortunately we're still stuck with WG.

      A team of pro-Soviet people who take forever to do something, never do it right, don't listen to their playerbase and don't care about anything other than money and Russian supremacy.

    5. I prefer to be insulted on the interenet over the- "Error 37" syndrome.

    6. As Victor said...
      Atleast we get to play the game... and not have a company show a finger up your face saying you ain't playing the game you bought yet. get in a damn queue and wait....

      Though I think SerB is funny... and that a part of the troll-answers deserves it...

  20. As for my personal fail, it's not a huge thing but I feel that it's so fundamental that the fact that it's been ignored for so long irritates me.

    What am I talking about? Scale, the scale in this game is ridiculous, and I'm not talking about the map sizes either. Some tanks are bigger or smaller than they should be when compared to their counterparts, and compared to the environment all the tanks are tiny, or the houses are occupied by 8 foot tall giants. The fact that there is no 'standard metre' in the game for the purpose of scaling makes it impossible for players to call out these mistakes as well.

    As I said, this is fundamental stuff and if anything the buildings seriously need to be rescaled, of course that would require a map overhaul and seeing as all they are interested in is making things more or less bumpy I doubt anything will be done about it...

    1. Thats a good point, last time they said it was worked on.

    2. Hehe... That actually cracks me up. There's a full thread dedicated to how big of a fuck up the model of Matilda Black Prince is, including historical photos, remodels using in-game Matilda's hull and in-game Cromwell's turret, what have You. Yet SerB ducked the responsibility and no one else seems to see the problem. "Working as intended"...

    3. Yes, I saw that thread. As an owner of all three versions of the Matilda I can safley say the Black Prince one sucks the most eggs.

  21. Oh, FTR is expanding but SilentStalker's ego is expanding at an even greater speed. Does anyone really give a shit about what you like or dislike?

    1. Oh, anon comments are expanding but your ego is expanding at an even greater speed. Does anyone really give a shit about what you like or dislike?

    2. I assume you do, Anon, since you are reading my blog :) I have never claimed my opinions to be The Universal Space Truth :)

    3. >I assume you do, Anon, since you are reading my blog :)
      I read your blog for the translations and occasional leaks, not for your political rants about the KGB or whatnot (BTW, no one gives a shit about the stupid laws of the former Warsaw pacts countries either). Also we're all pretty much aware of those issues, you talked about them on other chances, we directly and personally felt some others, I agree with you about some, disagree about others, but is it really necessary to make a post to summarise them?

    4. You got article about IS-7 and Q&A today - what else do you want?
      Leave your opinion to yourself.

    5. Necessary? No, as it is not necessary to do anything on this blog, or read it for that matter. I simply assume we all do stuff because we like to.

    6. "dear local newspaper, I like your sports section, but don't care about your automotive section, please get rid of it, kind regards, anon"

    7. @SilentStalker: Was it "opportune" then? I mean, do you find likeable or interesting a whole long post of (well known) whining?

    8. I just felt like it, that's all :)

    9. "BTW, no one gives a shit about the stupid laws of the former Warsaw pacts countries either"

      I do, whatcha gonna do about it :)

  22. Btw: Meybe we should get back to infromation for upcoming patches instead of hating/flaming/whatever articles.

  23. Stalinec decal will be removed in 8.5.

    1. Cool, guess I'll get my cold to buy the josef Stalin decal instead

  24. "[We] have Wargaming developers naming themselves "KGB" and using Smersh avatars."

    When the people of Russia actually elect as their president a former KGB agent, it's no surprise that WG employees do this.

  25. History is always written by the victors, so Russian historical bias is no surprise. Even today's Russian government published history books promoting patriotism and glorifying Soviet rule, disregarding events that would've portrayed it in a less favorable light. Again, it would be no surprise if both SerB and Storm grew up reading those books.

    Google "Prisoner of war wikipedia", scroll down to the photo of Bolshevik soldiers torturing a Polish and tell me there's no Russian bias in WoT.

    1. lol, you must be one of those siemkas. what's the connection between bolsheviks and WoT?

    2. And you must be to unintelligent to consider the second option that all those "facts" or "historical" whatever stuff about USSR and how evil they where and how many quadrillion people they killed is just made up by American media to make USSR appear as evil? Guess not, but then again.
      You aren't intelligent enough to consider a second option, you only believe what you are fed trough your beloved television

    3. Purge Denial - becuase Holocaust Denial is so 1950s...

    4. What if every single event that is written in history was made up specifically for political purposes? What then? :D

      (This is kind of why i don't like history myself. If i go to museums it's to see awesome pieces of art, or engineering).

    5. All this Soviet bastards have the guts to claimed Crimea! That bloody pussy named Putin must have his own "Occupy Crimea" specials on WoT, you hear that Lord of Soviet troll SerB?

  26. Without mention the VK 4502 B, The real project was to be a 45t with 80mm of frontal armor, but the WoT 4502 B have 72.4t and 170mm frontal armor.

  27. My opinion goes the same direction. Overall the EU-Community work is very improvable. The only time there is a real presence of the officials, is when someone disobeys the rules.
    Well, the newbie section is quite ok I guess. Although I find it disappointing, that most of the players get either trolled or negrepped when coming with a question. Not by the EU-Staff but the other players.
    My opinion on the russian bias:
    I see some reason for it. Before ranting stay with me on it.
    Round about 60 - 70% of the hole player base is located on the RU servers. When ballancing tanks or introducing features, new servers or something like that, I find it rather naturally to server them first. In the end there is the most money. It's not a very good system because one COULD treat the servers different in ballancing aspects but not in the main development. So perfectly fair? No. Undestandable from the point of an enterprise? Yes.
    Still, the lack of a good PR is mind blowing. I get the reason why they don't give information until it is perfectly safe that it will happen, but no information at all?
    Well, I think this game has some serious pontential but I see a lot of customers disappear in the EU section, when their treatment doesn't improve.
    Enough bs from me. Have some nice battles and may the RNG be with you.

  28. point to self : if there is a discount for that Stalinets decal before the patch, paint it over all my Soviet tanks

    //also, you either don't know the true story behind that pic with Storm calling a faggot a faggot, or just decided not to share it with the rest. Same holds for KGB - and it's KWG, actually.


    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  29. So much truth in this article...

  30. You forgot some :=)

    1. WGs inability to balance players in random games like they do tanks; e.g. If a battle has 10 veteran players and 20 newbies 9 of the vets would typically end up on the same side.
    - this is not skill based MM but _balanced_ MM.
    2. WGs inability to balance arty. The fantasy space guns dominate T9 and 10 and it takes forever to get something done.
    3. WGs inability to balance tanks: new tanks are sometimes OP and sometimes UP. The OP tanks are either not balanced at all or over nerfed by the time regular guys get em. Some tanks like the Jgdpz E-100 are never buffed enough and stays at the bottom of the perfomance list year in and out.
    4. WGs "intuitive" way of giving tanks camo values they "think" are right - without making the values public.
    5. WG selling premium tanks to new players that can't drive them mess up game balance since there is no balanced MM.
    6. The biggest fail is that the worlds best tank game is made by a company from Europes last Stalinist much potential that withers on the wine!

    1. Call me a fool if you wish but what's the deal with skill based MM? Why can't we have it?


    2. Said numerous times. WG thinks that when a player achieves a level of skill that allows him / her to pwn all da' noobz ... they deserve it like that. With skill based MM you would have veterans playing against veterans in every game - > no more easy rides (also no more useless teams, but they forget about that part).

      "Skill is a privilege." As the Great Troll said it himself. If greater skill only brings tougher matches then there wouldn't be any point to getting better.

      We do have the skill based MM for the 7/42 companies though ... whenever they arive.


  31. KGB same as CIA both intelligence agency...

  32. I would really love to see an interview, hour long or so, with Serb, about him self, NOT about WOT...


  33. 10) Love it.
    9) As a russian I find all the anti russian/soviet talk rather offensive. But I'm used to it, after all the whole world hates us. Also, I don't see the connection between Сталинec and Stalinist.
    8) Don't care
    7) Don't care
    6) Fair enough
    5) Love the prototypes, don't mind the fake tanks.
    4) Don't care
    3) Don't care. Also, RU didn't have the chance to verifying the changes. Testserver had old price, patch notes could be typo(wrong shell). It was a real gambling unlike EU/NA.
    2) Don't care
    1) Don't care

    The only "fail" I see/care about is the somewhat wrong audio feedback.

    "WG favors RU servers"
    Capitalism is a bitch, heh?

    1. he ain't a native Russian speaker - it's easy to miss the difference and, for some, start bitching about it.

    2. "Capitalism is a bitch, heh?"

      Having more players in RU than all of SEA/EU/NA combined together?
      From somewhere money has to come.

    3. As an european I find all the anti EU talk rather offensive. (each and every match on the test server)

      "after all the whole world hates us."
      I think North Korea is going through a similar "centre of the Universe" ego trip right about now.

      "I don't see the connection between Сталинec and Stalinist"
      Forum mods aren't all native german speakers but they go apeshit when a german expression with potential connection to the Nazis is used. Also german surnames that might be very common ones, but once belonged to more or less famous 3rd reich figures are banned. Use the same treatment for all.

      "patch notes could be typo(wrong shell). It was a real gambling unlike EU/NA."

      It was a gamble here as well. The fact of the matter stays that RU took a profit, EU/NA didn't. WG allowed it to happen. We have tons of typos in the game patch notes all the time.


  34. May I ask a question?

    Why "Stalin" (or KGB or "Smersh", whatever) reference is offensive? But in the same time "Cromwell" reference isn't offensive? Why?

    Stalin and Cromwell both were dictators of their states. Both of them participated in elimination of political enemies and both of them tried to supress national resistiance in subjigated countries.

    The only difference between them is scale. Tens of thousands of victims of Cromwell's rule, millions of victims of the Stalin's rule. But for me there is no difference between one man killed and millions of man killed. Murder is a murder, no matter how many people you murdered.


    1. You mean Oliver Cromwell....from the 17th Century?
      Hardly ripe for comparison with one of the greatest mass murderers of all time. there is a huge difference between the two.
      Hitler and Stalin were both evil c*nts and to allow one and not the other is the issue. (I want neither btw) but to try and equate Cromwell with Stalin is pathetic.

    2. >You mean Oliver Cromwell....from the 17th Century?

      Yes, this guy.

      > but to try and equate Cromwell with Stalin is pathetic.

      I don't equate him with a Stalin. I asked one simple question: why some murderer of tens of thousands is any better than a murderer of hundreds of thousands?

      Where is a borderline for "reasonable" amounts of mass murders?


    3. Actually he was right, you did equate the two when you said 'a murderer is a murderer'. Society and the world in general is vastly different between 1645 and 1945.
      Using one to analyze the other is bizarre at best just becuase they had tanks named after them. You might as well say no Patton tanks because he was horrible and slapped someone once.
      They can't rename an Is something else just to avoid his name or the Cromwell tank to avoid his name either. there is no Hitler-tank but there are plenty of nazi-wankers around with 'Wittman' names in the game.
      Cromwell didn't personally sign the order the mass murder of millions of his own people something which Stalin did do. Cromwell was an unpleasant man but he was no Stalin.

    4. We don't speak about societies and diffrent moral codes in diffirent times. This is not the point.

      We speak about MODERN people reactions on the names of diffirent historical personas.

      We speak about MODERN morality. And I ask the same question again:

      Why one mass murderer is any better then the other?


  35. about "The shameful Soviet propaganda is illegal in some European countries (Czech republic included, the 1948-1989 Communist party was banned here)"

    unfortunatelly this is not true: former communist party called "KSČ" only renamed itself to "KSČM", even the 'Communist' word remained in the offical title and their members sit in the parlamant :-/

    1. And they're apparently coming back:

    2. Well it's technically right... and yes, the left is making a huge comback. Stealing from the successful is very popular in Europe these days.

  36. As soon as they introduced flags I said at the time it was a mistake to promote nationalism and identity which was bound to encourage f*cktards killing teammates for a national flag (seen it) and then not allow another national flag.
    Pro-Soviet (Stalin was a total c*nt btw) slogans should not be permitted, but even on the NA server I have complained about a player with an Avatar of a terrorist whose name translates as a terrorist group which has murdered people in a pseudo-religious and nationalistic 'cause' and he hasn't been banned or forced to change his name or avatar so don't think that incompetance is only directed as pro-Nazi wankers it seems. It took two days for some shitbag on the Chieftans personal thread to get a ban for promoting genocide for example.
    WG's biggest fail is to discard and ignore its community, those with good forum reps who make regular and useful posts and who genuinely contribute to the game and community. You get more attention for promoting My Little Pony than for asking historical tank related questions.

  37. @Woras
    Exactly my point. The economical logic is to milk&feed your biggest cow while ignoring all the little fish (mainstream).

  38. You should add on having outright Nazi sympathizers on the US staff, Sgt. Grunt is the most egregious example.

    1. Wasn't he active on EU forums too? I remember talking to some ex-soldier about a year ago about some T-54 details

    2. As I mentioned earlier I went to the EU side of things because of this, they were all as bad as each other.

    3. Could someone give some examples of Sgt. Grunt being a Nazi sympathizer? I mean that is a pretty big accusation to throw.

  39. you forgot artillery

  40. I wouldn't mind KGB, Smersh and other stalinist shit, IF wg had added swastikas and rest of nazi symbols. Its a part of history guys and nothing will change that.

  41. Good screenshot. Apply it to yourself.

  42. You may want to fix the translation in #10, a more accurate translation would be pervert, not faggot.

    1. I think the technical translation is "pedophile" (or rather "pederast"), not that it matters too much.

    2. No, not really. He got it spot on.

  43. They are Russians. What did you expect?

  44. Not sure if you remember, but also the US HT tanks gun depression nerf - when it was changed from historical to be less (and not historical), in last patch test run. Then promissing to roll it back in quick fix and then doing nothing for like 2-3 months with it, in times, where the tanks were mass grinded to 1st X.

    This was the time, when I decided to not buy gold ever again.

  45. Uhh, could someone recap the Czechout affair for me? I wasn't playing WoT at the time and I'm curious.

    1. Ask SS he was a big part of it

  46. I think that for 90 prc of players points 1-4 are totally unimportant. These are things known only by forum readers and they are minority of players to be honest :)

    Shell case was an exploit. Of course WG should notice it earlier, but they could easily punish all trying to make credits on it. But they fix exploit in such way that no one lost creds.

    Two biggest WG fails taking into account average player are IMO:

    1. Inability to repair "Penetration!" shout for such a long time.
    2. No tutorial, which results in very low average skill level.

  47. For me biggest fail is lack of skill-based mm. Playin' with monkeys is a pain in the ass sometimes.

  48. The EU forum staff are very much influenced by their feelings. I made a thread once pretty much out right insulting the staff, developers and even the playerbase but in a way that pokes fun at them and had nothing happen.

    Later I had a thread which was simply 'WG says: Don't think and drive'. I got a warning point and 3 day RO ban.

  49. SS I have followed this blog for some time and found it informative and interesting but I have to say this rant has for me crossed the line.You talk about the EU Community Team, well I have met Ectar, Supercharge and the Challenger at a recent Community event and found them to be the nicest most helpful people ever, your comment about Challenger is so far from the mark its unbelievable. Only last night he gave up two hours of his free time to chat with our Clan, I have asked numerous things from him on forums and always got answers and no I am not an ex solider or anything.He along with Ectar are in my mind the best thing the EU has.Have you met him or any of them ? You are beginning to sound like a whiny school boy and in my mind have no right to point the finger of blame on people. Were you not a big part of the Czechout affair ?
    Am I not right in saying the NA office has no where near as many players or the language issues, personally I find that The Chieftain appears to have quite a big ego that requires massaging but I have not had the pleasure of meeting him so will refrain from personal statements.
    Please do not get me wrong I am not defending anyone and will be the first to say there is room for improvement but why don't you stick to what you are good at and stop naming people you havent the first idea about.

    1. Well, you are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine.

    2. But that is my exact point, these are real people not virtual tanks in a game,the best opinions are based on fact, you have none regarding these people (other than what you read on the forum ! please !)Stop killing this blog.

    3. Err...? wtf??

      Frank, and a lot more of us, are judging them on the only way we can..

      ...the way they treat us players, and the way Minsk treats them/us...

      Like shit.

      And they are bound to be "nice to you" at a PR event..
      Its called a "PR Event"

      My opinion.

    4. Mate (sorry, you still didn't sign yourself): you base your opinion on the forum posts and one day/evening you spent with those people in real life. Am I correct?
      I spent over 6 months (!) as Czechout's (the Czech community organizer) right hand, she trusted me and I trusted her, which also means I got a rather extensive insight into the community team work, including the work of the English CO's. Do you really think I know nothing?

      Plus, if you consider telling my opinions "killing the blog", then I say let it die, because I did it from day one and I will always do so.

    5. SS- As you say you have never met any of them, personally I feel you can learn a hell of a lot more from talking to someone face to face than on forums,they are obviously doing a hell of a lot better job than any of the others as we cant even name them !
      The Czechout thing-Lets let it die, I totally appreciate you worked with her but that was her,not Supercharge etc.

      Why killing the Blog-Because it is all getting too personal and is beginning to sound like your own little crusade/vendetta, I liked the information you told us, I really do not give a shit about talking about other people and all this gossip.I believe people should have the right to defend themselves and answer questions, do you tell those three what you are saying about them ? I doubt it, and that I find a little cowardly.

      Again I sound like I am defending WG I am not but i beg you get back on track i.e the Game.

    6. Ad personal meeting: Can you? Czechout was great when I met her in person. I am not referring to her personally, I am merely using it as a comparison. So no. You can't learn anything from one evening of social conversation.

      This completely reminds me of the time I saw Czechout (again, as an example), listening very intently to a bunch of fat guys in ragged T-shirts on the Czech community meeting ranting about clanwars, while I knew she actually didn't care about that at all and she despised hardcore unwashed gamers in filthy T-shirts. Made me smile back then, but she was merely doing her JOB.

      As for my personal opinion - vendetta on who? Ectar? Why? I said he's probably a nice guy in real life. Wargaming? Not everything is bad - I like Overlord, I like The_Chieftain, I do like Challenger. And as for right to defend myself, oh, you mean like when Ectar wrote about me in the old Q&A thread after I got banned, or how he locked the thread with his smug reply on me during the Czechout shitstorm? Right.

      Also, I don't see why all three of them should care about what I think or write of them. I am just some guy after all.

      But you can relax, I don't have any more rant articles planned. Just historical articles and the game stuff.

    7. Thank you,

      As for people not caring what is wrote about them, ummm you obviously do, as you just stated regarding the Ectar thread. The major difference is you were aware of it this, unless someone points people to this Blog they are not.So they cannot defend themselves.

      Anyway thanks for listening heres to game stuff.

    8. To the anon I just deleted the stuff from: why should I leave your moaning here? After all, you don't invite every little shit from forums to your private page to whine at you, do you? :)

    9. well anon...
      I am from the community that was a biggest WG fans at some point. We met devs team (with Victor Kislyi) during the deep beta and we really liked them. But that was a PR meeting.

      We actively helped with translations, we helped in creating some wargaming videos and much much more. All of that because we really liked and apprieciated WG staff.
      Alas no more.

      Time after time we got disappointed or annoyed by wg and now I rarely often hear the word "WG" without some insult added to it.

      This article is interesting to read and commented by many so it is a good article. Simple. You don't have to be interested in everything. Commenting on WG fails on WG forum is usually bannable and there is no point cause people in question will not read it anyway.
      And.... it doesnt matter if one or other community guy is nice or not on the pr meeting. The only thing you should take into account is what is he doing where it matters - events, forums, and other stuff.

      Back to FD points
      10. It's not SerB only. Some of WG stuff are either assholes, full of shit, or have the problem with power they have. At least sometimes.
      9. Well, it's more of the "bad taste" then real issue, but the general image is build from such details.
      Each server has it's own specifics - china server wants pay to win and op chinese premiums and they get it.
      The problem is, that for Russians there are heroes - Red Army - and villains - Nazis.
      For most of the EU server, Red Army represents communists who were equally bad as nazis.
      Russians are unable to understand this different perspective - which is sad but predictable.
      But the fact that nazis are banned and nkwd are ok would be an easy thing to shrug off, if devs answer was "we understand your concerns but we work according to the laws of coutries we work in and our internal rules don't allow us to ban for using NKWD name".
      The problem is, WG devs answer "fuck off faggot, if you don't like sucking stalin's balls go play tetris".

      8. you may fins my rant somewhere down there :D

      7. EU Moderators
      For me the biggest problem with eu moderators is inconsistency of their decisions. The same post may be left as ok, edited, assigned warning point or lead to 1/3/14/30 days RO depending on moderator's mood.
      The second issue is that moderators focus on catching the specific phrases, usually not seeing context of discussion/intention and such stuff.

      Those 2 combined are a powerfull tool to make stupid decisions.

      I am (well, was) mostly interested in topics considering e-sport and clan wars so the rich field for flame wars. Mods interventions always make matters worse, especially that they usually have no idea what the topic is about.
      What annoyed me most was pruning a lot of relevant stuff because there were bad opinions about some clans (but justified by clans performance/behaviour) while at the same time posts full of ponies and completely off topic were kept "because there is more freedom in that topic"

      Last - seriously, who are those mods? I don't know all of them, but there was a time, when WG tried to enlist more mods for polish section. I knew - from forum and TS 6 or 7 of them. Those who were intelligent guys, who made their name respected in the community by their actions, had no chance.
      Those who made an impression they are riddicuolous - they got the job.

      6, 5, and 4 I dont care.
      But you are right - "it's historical" is hipocrisy if half of the tanks were never built.

      3. Well the decision itself was allowable, but handling of this decision - not really.
      I personally, think Ectar has no idea what community thinks about the matter, how it will react and what they should do.

      2. It's a part of the situation where EU server is treated as least important, because RU, China and NA servers give them more money with less effort.
      So in most cases EU opinion does not matter and EU supertesters made no sense since it was easier to do everything in russian

      1. I do not know much about it.

  50. On the "Stalinist" decal...

    Come hither...

  51. Well to me it seems when we near the end of the months the mods get somehow active and start to handout warnings, got a 1 day RO ban from a post is made 2 weeks ago and a thread that was long dead...

    Take it as you want, I think they have to fulfill some sort of quota so they can prove that they are actually useful.

  52. 10. very personel .. its ok
    9. Agree. History is made by winner, we all know that. If this game was made in HRO by a skinhead leader born in 1980, the most popular nickname was adolf and nicks like rothschild were banned.
    8. k.a.
    7. maybe, dont know
    6. Players in Ghana have no Moderator.
    5. we all know it, its a joke and not historical.. i have 750 games with the Tiger1 uselesst joketank .. Panther also.. why? ..see pkt 9. first sentence
    4. why i do not bye a type 59 in 2011? fuck, i dont know, but now its to late and i must train my chiniese crews on normal tanks... thats sucks .. must i play china tanks? .. hm, no
    3. WG handelt this correcti think.
    2. Hey, if u WG need new supertester .. here i am xD
    1. dont know, dont interrest me

    1. "Tiger1 uselesst joketank"

      Seriously? I have in it 60 prc win ratio and I have serious problems with understanding, why people whine on it.

  53. Спасибо за интересную информацию. У Вас получилось очень занятное и смешное чтиво, подтверждающее, что игроки любого из серверов (РУ, ЕУ, США и т.д.) страдают завышенным самомнением, непоследовательностью и параноей в равной пропорции.

    1. Yes I too like vodka and dancing bears comrade driving Ladas!

    2. *"Школьник" mode On*
      Кроме перечисленного Вами нужно еще обязательно включить атомный реактор, поругать "Кровавую Картошку" за преклонение перед Западом и чрезмерное усиление американских и немецких танков (ведь всем известно, что были они редкостной гадостью и во всем уступали Русским Танкам), а так же за целенаправленное ухудшение танков советских, которым "Картошка" занимается, что бы унизить Русский народ в общем и ветеранов-победителей в частности!
      *"Школьник" mode Off*
      Пожалуйста пользуйтесь, можете добавить в свой стандартный набор фантазий. ;)

    3. пашолок, заходи!

  54. Any more info on this "Czechout affair"? I can't find much, and your original post is gone (even though the post you made saying it was back is there).

  55. Chaffee has always been my fav tank. It just pains me to see wat WG has done to it

  56. Cant agree more to point 7. Made a post in the Forum regarding the fact that more and more Poles "afk-die" their way up to Tier 10 where they even more suck as they have no experience. No names, no Insult, just a sad fact from thousands of games.
    Result: 3 days RO and 2 warning points by vuk. A small man with a small **** an a BIG Napoleon complex.

    1. Oh yes, of course, only Poles do that, lol. Attack on one nationality and words that you used in your post here are for me clear proof that you deserved that ban.

      I was complaining on players and game many times on EU forum. Somehow I have never get ban and I have only one warning point (for using word fuck in a quotation from ingame chat).

  57. Hammer and sickle and Red star are banned from Hungary and couple European country, still the game are using it

  58. Personally I couldnt care less if I have a nazi sign or a soviet sign on my tanks/planes or something else. There is totaly normal to sell model kits of planes or tanks with swastikas as in means of historical accuracy in every aspect. The fact I build them makes me a supporter of those regimes? Bullshit. There is to much fuss around it tbh. If someone openly supports those ideals, that is a different story and not to mix up with those who just honor the own history.

    As of the article I agree fully in most of the points :)

  59. The 83mm HE shell fiasco ... wont forgive what i can't forget

  60. NICE JOB, Absolutely AMAZING, but try to get that IDI**** SerB to read and answer and really explain these things to you, otherwise it will never stop. Except that I stopped paying WOT.

  61. Allow me to expand point 8 - broken clan wars.
    As you are random battles lover and I treat random battles as a PvE farming area (only bots here can spam chat :D) I have much more to say about "endgame" content :D

    (sorry for a bit unedited text)

    1. No Clan Wars testing.
    Almost EVERY patch in CW comes with some bug that requires an extra freezing or takes weeks to implement.

    2. Bad CW ideas promoted with even worse reasoning.
    This is problematic, but starts with the fact that Clan Wars are a bit hermetic. Normal soldiers who just see tokens but not knowing what and why other's are doing are in fact clueles. Clan commanders are in a bit better position, but I have seen how much clan commanders have to learn when they join well organised alliance.
    Leading a whole alliance provides uncomparable understanding of Clan Wars mechanics, but CW developers are forbidden to play Clan Wars. They may have alot of statistics about Clan Wars Battles but they have no way to understand clan wars politics.
    If 90% of people writing on the forums about Clan Wars are practically clueless (as if they were talking about war in afghanistha because they have seen all Rambo movies) no wonder developers have no idea what they are doing.

    3. Absolutely no interaction with the clan wars players.
    Changes in Clan wars never take into account server's specifics, they are always based on russian server (last time I checked RU server was closer to free for all mayhem, US was a big farmland, EU was few powerblocks fighting each other)
    Many changes were openly protested by commanders of practically every clan that has some real knkowledge about clan wars and.... nothing.
    There was a special section for diplomats, but all that was going there was suggestion of creating tournament for clans - were each clan will send 1 player and they will be randomly teamed up to 5 player teams. Someone probably just seen The Hunger Games.
    I tried to push there a topic with our demands but lost interest when I realised, that on that forum are more people from clans unable to land then from those able to land.
    Even more annoying is what they do not do.
    For example, 1 month after introducing Clan Wars it was obvious that there is a need of 2 things:
    undo mechanism in case someone makes mistake
    gold transfers log to know who received how much gold - both in case the person making transfer needs to check transfers already done and to prevent cheating of clanmates.
    The answer from developers? They added to game rules the line saying, that support will not interfere or disclose information on any inter clan actions.

    4. 7/42 format
    It's of course arguable, some people like this format. I personally find it supid, especially with the maps not exactly being suited for 7vs7 combat.
    The only reason why this format was introduced was the fact that it is much easier to organise live event with 7 players per team then with 14 players per team.

    Annoyingly, e-sport team creates a lot of hype around 7/42 throwing lot's of gold in those tournaments and limiting 14vs14 tournament to negligible amount to be able to say "popular e-sport format".

    WoT is not LOL where team setup is the same in random battles and tournament. 7/42 format is not an endgame format for many players, it's a mode designed for no-lifing elite group.

    1. 5. Bad tournament system
      In most tournaments we have some technical problems, because tournament system was devised for 1 specific tourenament - 1st ural steel - and was not changed since. It allows only single elimination tournament with no option for 3rd place match Also it is sometimes little buggy.

      6. ESL tournaments in traingin rooms
      ESL never got an option to use wargaming tournament system, so all ESL tournaments are played in training battles.
      Simple yet extremely useful modifications of training battles were never introduced (for example - assign one player as opposing team captain, so he can select his team, you can select your team and no one knows who uses which tank what would greatly smooth the process)

      7. EU All Star
      There was a lot of hype, how it would be a great thing to boast about. There was a lot of talk about medal showing on tanks, on stats in the game, on player page, on forum.
      It ended with few images that you can YOURSELF put together and place in your forum signature.
      It gets even better - the background image (the placeholder for medals for specific tournaments) was bigger then the size of the picture allowed on forums in your signature, so it was needed to rescale it.

      8. E-sport team
      There are different opinions about BUMP, but I have to say 1 thing - he really wanted to improve, he invited captains of all teams that get medals in first few tournaments to discuss his ideas and help him improve ideas for the next tournaments.
      He made a lot of mistakes - sometimes because he never was e-sport players, sometimes he didn't notice something, sometimes he was pressed with time, but he was trying.
      Unfortunately they added 0xyde to the e-sport team. Who played 1300 battles in randoms and never played in any tournament. Unfortunately 0xyde decided he need to prove himself by showing he does not need any advice.
      So tournaments are played on the same old maps, not even well chosen ones. At least some ideas were implemented by BUMP before 0xyde came.

      9. No coordination between e-sports.
      esl admins, wcg and other events admins and wg e-sport team are able to coordinate at least some of their tournaments. They just don't care to try it at all.
      Which is funny because for Ural Steel #2 elimination there was 1 day break in schedule so Red Rush can play their strange tournament on RU server, but then WG tournament and wcg qualifiers collided. And some other cases of similar collisions.

      10. Bad organisation of live events
      this forunately is probably a thing of the past. There was a lot of bad organisation during first and second Ural Steel, Redbull12 for writing about 1st event got only gently slaped on a wrist, Carmon for writing about Ural Steel #2 was sacked from being an ESL admin.
      Funny thing firstly everyone was informed that he was sacked exactly fror that, later some wg employees started saying that there was some other reasons - unfortunately no-one (not even Carmon) knows them
      this coincides with the whole way of EU community workers are treated.

      11. Victor Kislyi is an asshole
      This is about Ural Steel #1 :D
      Between eliminations for ural steel and ural steel tournament RU server had 3 months of clan wars, while EU server had no clan wars and hard wipe meaning everyone needed to grind from the scratch.
      Also in the tournament itself there were cases of live commentary by russian speakers what is going on in the battle - perfectly understandable by russians.
      EU teams were handicapped and they were probably weaker then russian ones.
      However in the interview Viktor Kislyi said, that he thinks this is because on the live tournament skin mods were not allowed, that's why EU teams played so badly.

      It was very noisy affair at the time with the only response "shut up and have fun playing" and when refused there was an extra addition "or we will ban you".

    2. Can I publish this as an article? :)

    3. the stuff above? It's not an article material. It's just a quick rant off the top of my head,

      But if you want I can double check all the facts, prepare some links where appriopriate, ask few people whose opinion on that matter I value (even if I don't usually like them), rephrase some stuff that is blabby and send to you.

      just let me know
      Gorzki at the EU forum

  62. I feel there is a stone missing here. IF EU is impotent and without power, how come most post about the treatment of EU supertesters, comes with the line "EU office made it happen".

    Is there something i missed along the line?

  63. Damn good point, plus who banned SS,the EU Office.


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