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May 18, 2013

0.8.6 changes in game mechanics

SS: Okay, I was AFK yesterday so I have no idea where this came from, I can't find the original post, but it was apparently written by _Quasar_ (EU forums dev) based on Storm's info in advance and people, who weren't supposed to see it saw it over the developer post tracker mechanism (lol, fail). 

Anyway, thanks Trent and Ogogopogo, here goes:

Edit: original source where I got it from - http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/247547-changes-in-game-mechanics-086/ 

(I backedited the post and deleted it by accident, sorry about that)

Dear all,

In this article, we will explain the major changes coming to the game mechanics that our producer, Michael Jivetc (Storm) has shared with us.

Note: The statistical theory behind some of the explanations below has been simplified to make the article accessible to all. For those mathematicians in the audience - please do not judge us too severely.

Changes to gun accuracy

In our opinion this is one of the most significant changes that we are bringing to the game since 0.8.0!

For those who might be interested, here is the statistical theory behind the mechanic. In game, we currently use the normal (Gauss (https://en.wikipedia...al_distribution)) distribution to calculate the values for shot dispersion. However, a limit for shot distribution has to exist, so all extreme values are restricted to the edge of the aiming circle. In simple words, the limits for the most inaccurate gun would still be the limits of the aiming circle.

Currently, in Version 8.5, we have 1.3 sigma set as a limit. This means that approximately 19.4% of shots will land at the edge of the aiming circle.

There were good reasons which this limit was chosen back in 2010, but the game has developed since then and we are ready to move on.

For Version 8.6, we have decided to change the distribution model used for accuracy calculations, by increasing the limit to 2-sigma. This means that now only 4.6% of shots will land at the edge of the aiming circle. That’s nearly 4 times less than under the old model!

We have also decided that the spike on the edge of distribution is no longer required, so the landing points for shells will be distributed equally from the center to the edge of the aiming circle. This means that overall there will be much fewer shots landing directly on the limit of the aiming circle. In other words, the shots will be more evenly distributed throughout the aiming circle.

How will it affect the gameplay?

It means that the accuracy of all guns will greatly increase. Players will notice much fewer shells falling on the edge of aiming circle – in fact such shots will become incredibly rare. We are decreasing the influence of random factors in-game, which means a corresponding increase in the value of player skill.

These changes will apply to all tanks and tank destroyers in the game. We have decided not to apply these accuracy changes to SPGs as it could potentially damage gameplay too much. The change will be compensated for by a slight increase in shell dispersion. If you've already seen leaked information about Version 0.8.6 SPG characteristics, please do not worry. It's not a nerf, just measures to avoid “over-buff”. The overall accuracy of SPGs will be pretty much the same, just more predictable.

New mechanics for HEAT shells:

Currently the way the mechanics work means that the effect of HEAT shells is barely different to normal Armour-Piercing shells. To increase the difference between them, and also to decrease the influence of HEAT shells on gameplay, we have decided to change their mechanics in Version 0.8.6 to make them more realistic:

• HEAT shells will start to ricochet if the impact angle is greater than 80 degrees. (please note that every shell can have slightly different settings). The armour penetration after ricochet will remain the same.
• After penetration, a HEAT shell cannot ricochet inside the tank (as the shell is transformed into a continuous stream.)
• After penetration, the HEAT shell will lose 5% of armour penetration force for each 10cm of travelling distance
• After penetration, the force with which the HEAT shell continues to travel through the armour will take into account the angle of impact between the armour and penetration spot


Overall, these changes mean that HEAT shells will now have ricochets instead of penetrations with 0 damage and less armour penetration values when it meets spaced armor (Maus drivers will love this change).

Note: The tracks of a vehicle will also count as spaced armour for HEAT shells.

New mechanics for camouflage:

Currently, camouflage patterns and camouflage net values work as multipliers in the overall camouflage calculation formula. So if the base camouflage values for a particular tank are low, the provided advantage from the both devices will also be close to zero.

We have decided to change this. From now on, the values for vehicles and camo devices will be cumulative.  This means that now the camouflage net and camouflage pattern will provide fixed bonuses which will only differ based on the class of the vehicle (for example, TD's will receive the highest bonus).

To avoid side-effects with having nearly invisible TD's, it was decided to decrease the overall camouflage bonuses provided by bushes and fallen trees.

Changes to amount of credits and experience points received for battles:

Currently TDs and SPGs receive penalties on the amount of experience points they receive per battle - TDs currently receive 33% less XP, while SPGs receive 50% less than regular tanks.

In Version 0.8.6, we will remove these penalties. This means that TDs and SPGs will receive much more XP per battle

We will also add an assistance bonus for keeping enemies tracked. If you track an enemy and your allies then damage it or even destroy it, you will receive a bonus in credits and XP. The mechanics will be similar to the way the bonus for spotting currently works.

145 comments:

  1. Very nice news about TD&SPG xp.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. i agree, but still change i would like to see and that is no premium ammo in random battles

      Delete
  2. well..interesting stuff indeed

    ReplyDelete
  3. Replies
    1. Agreed, and should have happened a LOOONG time ago.

      Delete
    2. About time TD's got better XP, I do all the work for my team and get very little for it.

      Delete
    3. Without implying that it is necessarily your case, doing "all" DAMAGE is still far from doing all work. Funny how so many TDs think they can do so much damage without spotters..

      Goner [EU]

      Delete
  4. Well, this actually seems like a decent update. The extra xp for TDs and SPGs will be lovely and so is the HEAT change. Even the accuracy aspect seems very well thought out and should be good. Hopefully anyway :) Oh and didn't I read somewhere that 8.6 (or another patch? ) would see and 'armor buff' or something? There's no info on that yet right?


    -Dre028

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They basically buffed the armor by nerfing the penetration values of the guns afaik.

      -Falerion EU

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    2. This seems pretty comprehensive, so it looks like all the changes are here :/ was hoping for further adjustments, f.e. a system whereby having nearly enough but not quite the armour to bounce a shell would reduce damage taken- would make tanks like the Jumbo Sherman more valuable when facing lots of higher tiers, and solve the problem of having excessive penetration that is useless against same-tier enemies while you suffer in other stats (e.g. French long 90mm in tier VI). This would require a total rebalance of damage output across the board, though.

      Delete
    3. Forgot to sign :P -Platypusbill

      Delete
  5. Great news. Keep them coming. Can't wait for 8.6.

    ReplyDelete
  6. xCaptainObviousxMay 18, 2013, 9:57:00 AM

    ...

    ...

    ...
    Wow, this looks great but I wonder how it will influence my ninja- ELC AMX.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. - they said that in high camo tanks, camo mods provide close to zero advantage
      - they fixed this by making camo mods give a fixed buff instead of a multiplier buff.

      we can safely say from this your ninja will be more ninja.

      Delete
    2. You mean in LOW camo tanks camo mods provide close to zero advantage, right?

      Delete
    3. yes Anon, tanks with a naturally low camo coefficient get less benenfit from camo nets and petterns. That's how I read it as well. As for the elc amx, we don't have hard numbers for any of these camo-related values so there's no way to say if your tank will end up better or worse off after the change. It's entirely possible that it will have less overall effective camo if it is one of the current best camo coefficient vehicles.
      IJP

      Delete
  7. So that means that that HEAT shells will have now less penetration like stated earlier AAANNNNDDDD all these other changes to?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Of course.

      High tier HEAT is utterly retarded atm, surprised they aren't toning down the HEAT of some of the tier X TDs, the T69, and Chinese 122 (mainly on the IS-2, but also on the upcoming 112 prem heavy).

      The premature detonation and subsequent loss of pene is a nice buff for tanks with large side skirts.

      -Platypusbil

      Delete
    2. Yep. Less pen, but more accuracy. Which may make the 105s in T4/5 viable again....

      - Butter_Ball (eu)

      Delete
  8. OMG a patch wich focuses on the game mechanics
    there are no words which can discribe my joy

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Just what I thought.

      Delete
  9. Wot mechanics still sux.

    ReplyDelete
  10. But we still can't find the camo values of ours tanks, can we?

    -Big Gary-

    ReplyDelete
  11. Also, SS- are you going to discuss the poll results in a post soon?

    -Platypusbill

    ReplyDelete
  12. finaly you can hide a Mous in the buches aghaahaha :P

    ReplyDelete
  13. Does anyone else actually feel rather suspicious about the accuracy change? More specifically this sentence:

    "In other words, the shots will be more evenly distributed throughout the aiming circle."

    Which, at least to me, also sounds like quite a few less shots hitting dead center making it a very bad news for long range sniping action.

    I don't know about others but I don't really mind THAT much the odd shot landing way off center once in a while, as long as I can more or less count on the majority of them hitting rather close to it (having mostly the top tier German and UK guns in mind now, obviously). However I read that sentence above, this "hitting dead center" should become much less common.

    We'll have to wait and see but I can't say I'm exactly full of optimism amd joy ATM. :-)

    laachta

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. These are the distributions:

      http://i.imgur.com/XGSq1Yy.png

      With the new distributions more shots will land in the center of the aiming circle. It will depend on the new accuracy values (they decide how large the circle will be) whether guns will be more or less accurate than in the previous version.

      Babs out!

      Delete
    2. http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/236755-understanding-the-86-accuracy-change/

      This is neat topic on the subject deviated from this topic:
      http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/236740-86-gameplay-mechanic-changes/

      Delete
    3. More evenly distributed means:
      Currently everything that would go outside the aiming circle is capped and set to the edge of it. So you will have a spike in the gauss distribution as nothing is allowed to go out of 1.7 sigma.
      With 8.6 this cap will be removed, so shells are allowed to land outside the circle. Though the overall spread is reduced you now have the theoretical abillity to shoot 90° off your gun if there isn't some other restriction.
      I hope there is, otherwise they will have some funny new stuff for the RNG-Videos :-P
      Ma_Wo

      Delete
    4. Got a mistake, the 1.7 sigma is the disrtibution, the cap is at 5 sigma I think.
      Ma_Wo

      Delete
    5. Ma_Wo

      Read more carefully.

      If something goes outside the ring it is redistributed back inside the circle. So no outside shots. So nope, no 90 degree shots.

      Delete
    6. You are right, I was mistaken by this sentence:
      "We have also decided that the spike on the edge of distribution is no longer required..."
      OK. So there is still a max distribution. Still, it should be a smoother curve as the edges are much lower now.
      Ma_Wo

      Delete
    7. very nice picture.
      I would like to see however two circles - 1 for 0.8.5 distribution with 0.43 accuracy and other with 0.8.6 distribution with accuracy 0.7

      also - arty is changed not to be buffed while everything else is buffed a lot?

      Delete
    8. As much as I like to hear everything about this mechanics rebalance(I love it) I am bit afraid of what it will do to inaccurate tanks like KV1s which is bit op even now...

      Delete
  14. Sounds good... let's see how it works on the testserver.
    Especially I think the changes in the incoming are necessary, after TDs and Arty got/ will get to t10. Also the Change that camo has an fixed additional nous-value and not an percentual seems to be good in my eyes, I hope it will be introduced for over mechanics like optics etc.
    -Mppol

    ReplyDelete
  15. wow... damn this WG got good xD

    ReplyDelete
  16. Surely rewarding TDs with more XP and credits will just encourage eve more people to use them? They already influence tier 10 games too much, in my opinion

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. influencing too much in tier 10? with 3-5 arties pointing their guns at you? seems legit.

      nice logic, scrub.

      Delete
  17. Nice, I'll snipe an E-75 with Panther's L/100 after the patch.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It should also help all those mid-tier british tanks to hit weak spots at range with their low pen but accurate guns.

      Delete
  18. Alright now I'm starting to look forward to this patch.

    -Techit

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  19. Interesting... Almost too good to be true. I am curious as how much of this actually makes it intomthe patch.

    The one thing that made me doubt the legitimateness was where they address player skill directly... They refuse matchmaking with skillbased balancing, but they would change the game mechanics to make something Rely on skill more directly? I dunno.... seems odd or is that just me?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. changes were confirmed on NA forums by catstalker

      well at least he replied in thread explaing how accuracy change works and didnt deny rest

      Delete
    2. They are incapable of reworiking the mm system so they do what they always do: buff and nerf stuff and hope for the best.

      Delete
    3. They could add an mm based upon total games played. That would not completelyxsolve the problem but it would be a step in the right direction..


      Oops NAnserver gaymannforever

      Delete
  20. The changes to amount of credits and experience points received for battles,

    this is what I'm looking forward to!

    ReplyDelete
  21. the prospect of WoT as an ESport is definitely shedding light to wargaming's eyes with respect to game balance and gameplay. i welcome changes like these dearly.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Hehe, sounds like they are actually buffing arty accuracy in some way and then balance it in another way.

    ReplyDelete
  23. "We have decided not to apply these accuracy changes to SPGs as it could potentially damage gameplay too much."

    AND

    "If you've already seen leaked information about Version 0.8.6 SPG characteristics, please do not worry. It's not a nerf, just measures to avoid “over-buff”. The overall accuracy of SPGs will be pretty much the same, just more predictable."

    Doesn't these two sentences sound a bit of acontradiction to anyone???

    Basically they say how the new dispersion will be. Then that it's not gonna happen with artillery. But that the artillery accuracy nerf is just a compensation. ??? WTF??
    (Btw I hate artillery and I don't play them, just askingfor the sake of others :) )

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. From what I understand they compensated the accuracy buff with a "nerf" by arty. It is somehow misleading but I don't think they will implement an own aiming algorithm for artillery. It should be read like:
      We balanced arties accuracy ("nerf") so the new accuracy buff will not be applied to them.
      Ma_Wo

      Delete
    2. Yeah, since the shots will now be more likely to land near the center of the circle, if accuracy of SPGs was unchanged, that just means we'd have a MUCH higher chance of direct hits (including, of course, one shot finger-of-doom T10 kills).

      The decrease in accuracy translates to a larger aiming circle, so we'll have a larger area that the shots can land in with the more even distribution, which brings it back to close to what we have now.

      You would NOT want to see arty get that much more of a chance of hitting dead-center. :)

      Delete
    3. first Anon: it's not just you, I also read that and was immediately stuck by the apparent contradiction. Well, I guess we'll just have to wait for official clarification and not forum speculation.
      IJP

      Delete
  24. cool strory bro..
    ...and what is the catch??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is the point :S

      - Wieros (EU)

      Delete
  25. for me it sounds like a major buff to soviet tanks with their high alpha damage and inaccurate guns?!

    e.g. a ISU-152 an long range is more likely to hit me than pre 8.6?

    or did i get something wrong?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. dispersion in the game is only one factor, the ballistic of the firing shell (gravity, velocity) is other factor. one exemple is the gun on Obj 268 has best acc in the game but it's half the velocity of JadgTiger gun so long range fire is not good

      Delete
    2. Obj 268 best acc in the game? What have you been smoking? There are quite a lot of guns with better accuracy than 0.33.

      Delete
    3. Like the Object 263 @ 0.32 accuracy and the German Mediums with .30 accuracy.

      Delete
  26. As a professional WG Hater i must say it's a very promising, calculated and needed changes.

    now i must clean myself.
    maybe they will not need to produce another 3 videos of their RNG :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Do not worry they still have time to screw something up.

      Delete
  27. Changing Gaussian coefficent is more or less right - I think it would be better if each gun+targeting systems has its own coefficient (for eg. the germans had better optics = higher coefficient, russians lower - low velocity guns would have lower coeff. than high velocity ones) Maybe that will be done, when new modules (I suspect targeting optics...) will be implemented once

    Spike at the edges ... o_O well, it sounds retarded so its good to be gone (I didnt know about that before, just suspected)

    HEAT vs. spaced armour changes are really needed

    "Changes to amount of credits and experience points received for battles" - OK we can read about the XP, but what about CREDITS ??

    - Wieros (EU)

    ReplyDelete
  28. Could you please ask on RU Q&A if shell distribution is by radius or by area?

    ReplyDelete
  29. Finally, when most good players left they make it less random... But anyway WGs manipulation will not allow anyone to dominate randoms.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Most good players? You made that up yourself. I can't imagine that more than the 50% of the good players have already left the game.

      Delete
  30. Are we getting trolled again? Where is the original post? (not the supposed quote from the original)

    According to wot wiki, the current aiming circle is 3-sigma from aimpoint and .2% of shots land on the edge.

    But you are telling me that it's been 1.3-sigma/19.4% on the edge and it will be changed to 2-sigma/4.6% on the edge?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The Wikki is maintained by fans, and not Wargamming in any way. It is a horrible source for facts, as it is mostly tin foil hat retards posting theories and conjecture.

      Delete
  31. Accuracy buff on everything? Imagine how OP tanks with "bad" accuracy as KV-1S will be now.

    ReplyDelete
  32. IF this is true - MAJOR BUFF to Soviet tanks incoming.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Slight change to the game in any way -> Buff to Soviet tanks somehow.

      That's how their childish, biased mind works.

      Delete
  33. >>It means that the accuracy of all guns will greatly increase.


    GOD FUCKING DAMN THOSE KV1S

    ReplyDelete
  34. I'm not claiming to be an amazing player at WoT, but with my 100% brothers in arms kv2 derp crew; I usually hit 75% of the time. If they increase the accuracy, this just makes Soviet tanks complete no brainers.

    It is interesting how this change might work. Quite frequently with my Lowe, I get a few shots where I am thinking; how the fuck did I miss him? With this new change, perhaps speculative shots at red blurs in the distance may be more common. Recently I've been getting quite used to shooting people accurately on the move. With a smaller distribution, this might be easier.

    I'm happy arty is getting nerfed. Played a game the other night where an m13 fired 12 shells in a game. He only managed to hit someone 5 times and three were ammoracks. Arty is far too powerful in this game. It's more common to see an arty top gun than someone in a tank. They are too easy to do well in.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I would troll you by saying "Omg noob learn to use cover" but one shot arty kills are a lot more frequent than tank shot criticals.

      Delete
    2. So 5 hits out of 12 are too much? What would you like, 1 hit in 3 battles for 200 dmg roof pen?
      And 3 ammoracks from 5 hits are extremely lucky, tho I have seen a battle where 10 enemies were ammoracked by 4 of ours... In like 7.3 or so, so no replay :/

      Delete
    3. You got to be kidding me. So in a given example we got Hit Ratio below 50% and (OMG!!!) three ammo racks. So going by that a Comet or Centurion I that You can easily pull off multiple Criticals on enemies (total below 5 means a crap game) with 80% Hit Ratio in one Battle is also OP?

      Delete
    4. Nerf arty faggots Now

      I slept with PiconMausenand the Chieftain

      Delete
  35. So if I'm not wrong, Russian inaccurate guns will have higher chance to hit from far. Great, why don't just give them 1 shot kill guns at all tiers?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. not op but pls explain this...

      Delete
  36. Too good to be true, I call fake.

    ReplyDelete
  37. OMG! This is so important! I don't know if you guys understand how this will affect accuracy! Since the maximum sigma increases, this will indeed mean more accurate guns (if accuracy value stays the same). But with the recent news of SPG accuracy nerf I did some calculations (on batchat 155 in particular since I am grinding towards it). This reveals to me the following, with the signa increase from 1,3 to 2 the accuracy nerf on the batchat 155 (and therefore other SPG's) is compensated. This means that if the aiming circle radius increases by a factor 1,5 (as with the batchat 155) still about the same amount of bullets will fall within the original pre 8.6 circle surface. Question: what will then fall in the outer radius of the post 8.6 aiming circle? Answer: The aproximate 15 percent decrease in bullets that hit the edge of the aiming circle, leaving just 4,6 percent of bullets landing on the edge of the post 8.6 aiming circle opposed to 19,4 percent in the pre 8.6 aiming circle.

    THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND!

    Because this means: That a accuracy nerf of a factor 1,5 (like with most SPG's in 8,6) will NOT MEAN WORSE ACCCURACY, IT BASICALY STAYS THE SAME. Only thing you'll notice is a increased aiming circle, but the chance that you hit a object while aiming, in a correct to update 8,6 adjusted way that is, will stay the same!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. "These changes will apply to all tanks and tank destroyers in the game. We have decided not to apply these accuracy changes to SPGs as it could potentially damage gameplay too much. "

      Keep dreaming. WG turned to whiners for sure. Not will they nerf accuracy+loading+aiming time, but they will NOT give us the 2sigma accuracy, so same old 20% shot landing at the edge of circle.

      Delete
    2. Keep reading my friend:

      "The change will be compensated for by a slight increase in shell dispersion. If you've already seen leaked information about Version 0.8.6 SPG characteristics, please do not worry. It's not a nerf, just measures to avoid “over-buff”. The overall accuracy of SPGs will be pretty much the same, just more predictable."

      That's what I checked numerically, and for a accuracy nerf of about a factor 1,5 it about evens out exactly with the accuracy patch in 8,6.

      Delete
    3. Sixense, it's a bad translation, the Anon's post is completely correct.

      Delete
    4. Shit that means that there will be more one shotting 1950hp medium tanks going 50km/h by arty.

      -kariverson

      Delete
    5. Georgia equals homosexuals

      Delete
    6. South Ossetia rules

      Delete
    7. So you hate Georgia, yet you dream about sucking cock of Stalin, a Georgian. Hilarious, just like antisemites who pray to Jesus :)

      Delete
    8. ^WTF? That was way too retarded...

      Delete
  38. "To avoid side-effects with having nearly invisible TD's, it was decided to decrease the overall camouflage bonuses provided by bushes and fallen trees."

    Did someone notice, that this means a camonerf for tanks without camopattern? Now it's even more harder to hide your germantanks

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What did you expect? German tank buff?

      Delete
    2. yeah but camo bonus by bushes and trees was ridiculous... 2 bushes and every tank is invisible, even a Maus (if the bushes cover it entirely)...

      Moreover its more of a buff for german tanks cause after 8.6 all of team will be able to take fully advantage of camo net and colours. I think especially the big german TDs will love this change. but lets wait for 8.6 PTS.

      Delete
    3. We need to wait and see until some good tanker soul will datamine the camo values after 0.8.6 release. If all machines, no exceptions, will have their camo values cut than what it means, is that camo skill and camo net equipment (fixed bonus) influence will be more important than it is now.

      Delete
  39. XP for tracking?
    I can see supporter tanks raising

    ReplyDelete
  40. got to say this will be a very good patch the game was needing something like this a long time ago

    ReplyDelete
  41. http://worldoftanks.com/news/2334-some-changes-coming-86-update/

    official confirmation

    ReplyDelete
  42. Might I say to all the arty-hating newbies that were cheering over the accuracy nerf:

    YOUR tears taste so sweet now.

    Seems that in 8.6 I can just continue to AP one-shot your bee-hinds, with even better match-making and double XP!!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Fuck off you arty rump ranger

      Delete
    2. YESH cry moar arty-hating kids!

      MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!111!!!!1

      Delete
    3. Oh, ffs. Stop that pretentious "n00bs can't deal with it HURR DURR" bullshit. Top players across the board are almost unanimously anti-arty.

      Delete
    4. That's because Arty can basically ruin them, which is the beauty of it- the rage a uniscum emits after being whacked is priceless.

      Speaking of which, if TDs/SPG have thier credit/xp limiters removed, how about those premium TD/Arty? SU-100Y/AT-15A/SU-122-44/GW B2, these means you.

      Delete
    5. Anon keyboard warriors like usual here it seems.
      Btw how does the XP limit removal effect your ability to shoot tanks? If your bad your still gonna have a bad time either way.

      Delete
    6. @anon above gradius - did you just seriously say "arty punishes skilled play, therefore arty is good"? Get out.

      Delete
    7. OP: "haha i'm to much of a scrub to play tanks so i play a point&click adventure and feel skilled, now i'm gonna hide behind and Anonymous posting and pretend i'm cool. Also i'd like to use the "only noobs don't know how to deal with arty" argument, cause it clearly shows how i have no understanding of the gameplay because most of my games i'm bussy sitting in a bush pretending i have skill"

      Well done guy carry on
      -Gloris

      Delete
    8. Gentlemen, please... I beg you to stay civilized. No matter what you prefer driving, you should not behave like children just because you love/hate arty.

      Delete
    9. (Not the same Anon, but I'm pro-arty anyway).

      Arty does not "punish for skill", but it gives you a possibility to counter enemy heavies effectively if your team's heavies suck, resulting in more interesting gameplay.

      And I don't believe that aiming in Sniper view requires more skill than aiming in Strategy view. You are looking at the same circles, except that in Sniper view you can zoom closer.

      Delete
  43. Statistics and probability are whores!
    Let me tell you my 2 real life experiences with statistics and probability...
    1. There is a river(Tamis in Serbian, Timis in Romanian) that goes through my country. There are some embankment against floods but they are not so high which means the 100-year-flood( in probability terms-water level so high it has 1% chance of happening) will flood big area around some villages and fuck up farming and agriculture in that area for a whole year...Guess what?! It happened 2 years( TWO YEARS) in A ROW. Water level so high, that it has 1% CHANCE OF APPEARING happened 2 years in a row. Holy shit right?!

    2. Now a positive experience: There are treasure chests in DOTA 2 that are opened with a key that is bought for RL money(around 2 euros) and there is a list of items that can be inside of each chest and an estimate probability of certain item being there. Long story short i got an item that had 1% chance of being there...

    So, my conclusion: 1% is a whole fucking LOT!
    And that 4% chance of me hitting the fucking aiming circle will be much more than 4%...IT ALREADY IS MUCH amirite???


    TL;DR: Probability is a whore i will hit that aiming circle too much even with 4% chance of hitting that bitch, ty for reading.

    Uterujem_Dobro

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you dont really understand how probability works ;s

      Delete
    2. I understand it perfectly i am a hydro-environmental engineer and we had a lot of probability, statistics and stochastic problems...

      anyway, all i was saying is that 4% mean nothing cause anything can happen, like 5 shots going completely off(at border of aiming circle) which has very low chance of happening but it still can: then someone will say FUCK THAT 4% i just had 5 shots going wildly off my target...
      that was my point.

      Uterujem_Dobro

      Delete
    3. I don't really think u have perfect randomness in river floods, there's certainly autocorrelation and a lot mor of variables in play, so that 1% is just a percentage from past observation that means nothing cause climate is a chaotic system and really nasty bitch about beeing predicted.

      Delete
    4. I have the odd feeling that 1% chance incidents happen to occur like 1 out of 100 times I try...

      Delete
  44. I just had a laugh with a friend of mine about the camo values having overhaul... Then after we talked a little and discussed instead of just laughing our asses we saw something very very disturbing...

    TD have around 15-20% basic camo value while not moving ( the normal TD, not house TDs :P ). We expect camo skill multiplies the basic camo value, thus having 100% camo crew will net you whopping 30-40% camo reduction, we added up bough camo and then camo net...

    Does it sound odd that a perfectly in open TD might not be visible from before you reach 30-40% of your viewrange? And this calculation was on open ground... Now the value is much less, with 30-40% times 1.3 39-52%... Difference is 61-48% vs 30-40% of your viewrange, on open ground.

    I hope they rework camonet and camovalues... as if I can't spot unmoving TD in open ground from 100m... god bless if they happen just sit in bush shooting you with their 30% + basic shooting camo value while not breaking their camonet bonus, giving them 200m safe distance ( 300m basic viewrange, for lowtiers just add up the numbers for higher ) while shooting...

    This is not funny in my eyes and I hope I'm not right how this works.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Welcome to World of Camping !

      Delete
    2. http://world-of-kwg.livejournal.com/195759.html

      masking coeff. from trees and bushes will be drastically lowered, and "double bushes shooting" tactic will be eliminated.

      Delete
    3. What is double bush elimination? I didn't know that you can trace spotting thru a bush. It either is there or it isn't? I cannot fathom they would make spotting rays go thru them...

      So there is nothing new in the spotting system after all if they just reduce the coefficiency of bushes, which should had been there before already. Or do I miss something? ( Using Gtranslations).

      Delete
    4. What you're missing is that the magical forest of Malinovka or Prokhorovka green lane will never be problems anymore.

      Delete
    5. So if camo values are lowered from 1 to less, it is as they should had been, different bushes have different values, even if there are other bushes around.

      So it does not eliminate shooting behind 2 bushes, but just being in the bushes does not automatically mean they hide you till enemy is 50m from you...

      So I didn't miss anything.

      Delete
    6. Well it will be interesting for sure i just hope i wouldnt have to completely relearn how camo on my light tanks behing bushes work as it is the key for passive scouting....

      Delete
  45. Wow. Some "nuclear" changes for sure.
    Can I just recap what I understood, and correct me if I am wrong:

    -Arty accuracy has not been nerfed.
    -Tank accuracy has been increased by roughly 50%
    -Waiting for a fully aimed circled is less profitable now.
    -Inaccurate tanks such as the KV1s, the T32, the chinese heavies will receive a major indirect buff.
    -More proof that 'disappearing' shells are simply edge-of-circle shots that currently account for a nearly a 5th of misses.

    -HEAT shells will act more like AP now.
    -HEAT shells will have to completely avoid spaced armor.
    -No internal ricochets means less chance of damaging multiple modules.
    -HEAT spammers in T4/5 will have to actually aim now, coupled with ~100mm pen and doubled prices... will help regular players a lot.

    -Camo rework means that training camo on heavies will actually be useful.
    -Cumulative camo bonus means that tanks like the JpzE100 or the Jagdtiger can achieve decent levels of camo, so coupled with 100% camo skill, receive a major indirect buff.
    -Camo rework means t8+ soviet heavies can become stealthier than TD's of the same tier.
    -Decrease of bush camo bonus means that some map tactics have to be reworked, and reliance on your tank equipment will trump use of terrain, so a slight buff to experienced players with skilled crews.

    -Income and XP buff for TD's and SPG's make them better money makers than heavies and meds of the same tier.
    -TX and 9 TD's will break even or make money respectively (based on my experience, the obj704 requires 3 damaging hits to break even, including repairs) so we will see a great increase in TD numbers.
    -The increased XP will speed the climb up the TD tree.
    -The increased XP will balance the increased number of tiers in the SPG tree, so progression will likely be the same.

    -Tracking bonus will give a massive bonus to light tanks that take the time to track enemies for arty.
    -Tracking bonus will help low tier tanks in high tier battles.

    So, if I gather, the tanks that benefit the most from these changes are the russian TD's, who despite not receiving camo bonuses, obtain much more accurate guns and increased income. The ones who recieve the least benefit are german meds, with already accurate guns, already decent camo, and now much stealthier enemies.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. >Inaccurate tanks such as the KV1s, the T32, the chinese heavies will receive a major indirect buff

      not really
      aiming circle is still huge and take forever to aim

      Delete
    2. I think the change of aiming would give accurate guns more advantage.

      Take an example, Panther have the most accurate weapon in tier 7, and now they can just fuck the penetration and shoot your tier 9 tank's weakspot from maybe 300m away.

      Delete
    3. yup
      these changes awards patience and skill
      the more accurate your gun is the more you get from this buff

      Delete
    4. Nope. Accurate guns will get additional accuracy that they DON'T need and inaccurate guns will get HUGE accuracy buff that they "need". Remember, maps are not getting bigger.

      It still remains to be seen how this will pan out, but Soviet and Chinese guns will get unbelievable buff, of about +35%, if listed gun accuracies remain the same.

      Delete
    5. camo rework will not make training camo on heavies any better then it is now.
      it will make camo net a good option on heavies.

      Also it will decrease a significance of sitting in a bush, thus increasing slightly the chances of lights searching for enemies in the woods - but it will absolutely help those that sits anywhere with camo net

      Delete
    6. Even with E.50M 0,3 you ALWAYS need more accuracy.

      Delete
    7. Panther guy: The penetration drop will negate any increase in shooting range that the increased accuracy brings.

      Second anon (seriously, sign your posts): If the accuracy buff is really 20%, then the 0.46 acc (chinese mid tier) will become 0.37 and the 0.38 (higher tier soviet) will become 0.30... which is currently best in game.

      The german tanks go into the 2's but who needs guns that accurate at 400m?

      Delete
    8. 8.5
      68% of your shots land within circle with radius of 0.75*[accuracy of gun]

      Example 1: KV-2, 152mm gun, 0.6 acc. -> 68% shots land within circle with radius of 0.45m (@100m)
      Example 2: E-50, 88mm L100 gun, 0.3 acc. -> 68% shots land within circle with radius of 0.23m (@100m)

      8.6
      68% of your shots land within circle with radius of 0.5*[accuracy of gun]

      Example 1: KV-2, 152mm gun, 0.6 acc. -> 68% shots land within circle with radius of 0.3m (@100m)
      Example 2: E-50, 88mm L100 gun, 0.3 acc. -> 68% shots land within circle with radius of 0.15m (@100m)

      IF accuracy of guns remains as it is in 8.5, expect MASSIVE buff to inaccurate guns (mainly Soviet and Chinese), since a) tank sizes remain the same and b) combat distances remain the same. This is a potential DISASTER, as they will get an ability to snipe just as effectively as they brawl, making them overpowering.

      This patch is mostly geared towards casual players. A real shame.
      /johndoe

      Delete
  46. >>-Tank accuracy has been increased by roughly 50%
    more like 20%.

    ReplyDelete
  47. just got posted on NA sait .. http://worldoftanks.com/news/2334-some-changes-coming-86-update/

    ReplyDelete
  48. I am thrilled with these changes-GJ WG!!!

    ReplyDelete
  49. Does anyone know, or can find out, what the dispersion stat REALLY means?

    When it says 0.40m at 100m, is that (in the gaussian distribution) 1 Sigma or 1.3 Sigma (which will be 2.0 Sigma in 0.8.6)?

    -ChielScape

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It was the whole circle, i.e. 1.3 Sigma now. With 0.8.6, it will become two sigmas.

      Delete
  50. I sat with a wide smile on my face the entire time reading this.
    If all these changes makes it into the game it will be the biggest change for the better since the new graphics/physics of 8.0. Maybe even better.
    I was worried that they were killing off artillery with the RoF and accuracy nerfs but from this info they are only nerfing RoF and shot dispersion and some get nerfed manoeuvrability. And then they will still be playable without raging after every shot misses completely.

    ReplyDelete
  51. As an arty and to player i feel there will be a whole lot more heavies crying. Ty WG. LMAO

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  52. If I have understand the accuracy change right, the downside of the change will be that the probability spike of the shot distribution will become much flatter. This means that not just fewer shots will fall at the edges of the aiming circle - fewer shots will also hit near the reticle's center. You also need to understand that the high number of shots currently falling at the edges of the aiming circle is caused by wrong handling of the Gaussian distribution's limits in the game (this has been shown by a lenghty article in the official forum): Shots falling outside the aiming circle should be recalculated, but instead they are just clipped to it, making them occur too often.

    What WoT is doing here is to just put more fail into shot dispersion calculation. "Not wanting to go to much into mathematical details"? Haha, I wonder whether they simply want to avoid having to explain things they haven't really understood.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No, it won't be flatter, vice versa, it will be sharper. The same bell curve will be chopped further from the center, while its height will stay the same.

      And if previously every 1 of your 5 shots was clipped at the edge, now only 1 of your 20 shots will be redistributed uniformly.

      The chance to hit the exact center of the curve will be smaller, true, but more shots will fall pretty close to it.

      Delete
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