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Apr 16, 2013

Buff my Tank: M8A1

Author: Priory_of_Sion

The M8A1 is a fine tier 4 TD, one of the best vehicles of its tier. However its depression numbers are half of what it was IRL according to The_Chieftain.

"Apparently WoT has been underestimating the amount of comfort that the "M8A1" is capable of. The real one was -20/+40." -The_Chieftain 

This applies to all guns on the M8A1 not just the small 75 mm howitzer. 

This could be a wicked little buff to an already good vehicle.


Bring on the Comfort

Edit: It also seems the T40 has less depression and elevation than it did in real life. A downside to the T40 is that the devs did gave it more gun traverse than it is suppose to have.

28 comments:

  1. The SAu-40 probably needs a buff a lot more than the M8A1 does.

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    1. I completely agree, the SAu-40 might need a buff more than any vehicle in the game. I do not know what can be done to it though. Maybe we can get someone here who knows a thing or two about the Frenchies.

      Just pointing out that WG can buff and increase historical accuracy for the M8A1 without doing so much as increasing the depression/elevation values.

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    2. I am a frenchie expert, but SS declined me(Probably because I didn't have an article ready >.>) But anyways, the Sau40 is missing about 21mm of armor on the front, and the sau40 iirc could mount either a apx turret, or a sarl42 turret.

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    3. Do you have a link to your source? No extra armor or a Sarl 42 turret according to my translation of one of the best websites on French tanks.

      http://www.chars-francais.net/new/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=54&Itemid=36

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    4. Ah, I misread the pages, still the tank lacks 11mm of armor. The sau40 seems can only mount a variant of the apx-r turret(Just from the looks, none of the sites say what turret it is). Source for the armor, wikipedia, since no site says the armor, but it cites one of those books that I can't find a copy of...

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    5. 35-40 mm frontal armor seems to check out OK according to char-francais.net.

      I don't think multi gun system is going to be implemented anytime soon so talk about the turret is rather pointless, it doesn't seem to have a big enough turret ring to mount a substantial gun anyways. My 2 cents.

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    6. My personal opinion is that the mobility, view range, and ammunition capacity should probably be buffed. As it is right now, it is really a Hetzer with worse armour, worse mobility, and slightly better view range. The taller profile and commander's turret should give it a bonus to view range, imho.

      Also, since it's based on the improved S40 chassis, not the S35, its mobility should be better than the S35 CA's, which I believe is not currently the case.

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    7. In addition to that, Chars-Francais indicates that the SAu 40 could carry 102 75 mm rounds on board, as opposed to the 40 rounds ingame.

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  2. It's not like the M8 actually needs a buff.

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    1. It doesn't need a buff, but I want it to.

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  3. The Chieftain has spoken, buff it! Would be very interesting to see SerB tell him to "stop whining", or "it's historical" =)

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  4. Yet more German Bias. can't buff the tanks of other nations otherwise the nazis get mad.

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  5. Traverse rates are too high
    Depression/Elevation rates are too small

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  6. German Bias??? Tiger H real life gun depression -9, in game gun depression -6. Real life speed originally 45 km/h, then reduced to 38 km/h, in game speed 30 km/h. Tiger II real life speed about 38km/h, in game 28 km/h. Panther real life gun depression -8, in game -6. And so on ... (And the most amazing thing: You can set tanks in fire by shooting them in lower front plate)

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    1. I don't believe the Tiger (H) had -9 degrees of depression nor 45 km/h top speed. Do you have a source for that, especially on the depression figure.

      In WoT IIRC we have the Panther ausf. G for the stock Panther which has -6 degrees of depression. The ausf. F turret had -8 degrees of depression and should be buffed from the -6.

      The Tiger II speed is a tricky situation. You see both American and Soviet tests show that 38 km/h in the Tiger II is impossible and the true top speed is around 30 km/h.

      The LFP weakness is placement of the transmission no? Last time I checked transmission fluid is flammable. That said it should be much less likely to catch on fire due to the transmission IMO.

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    2. Edit: Tiger's depression should be around -8 degrees. So WG should buff it(at least with the L/56). It is weird though because there are a lot of different #s floating around about the Tiger's depression(anywhere from -4 to -10).

      http://afvdb.50megs.com/germany/pz6.html#AusfE

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    3. Sources:

      JENTZ, Thomas L. & DOYLE, Hilary Louis. Germany's Tiger tanks - D.W. to Tiger I: Design, production & modifications. Atglen (PA) : Schiffer Military History, 2000.

      JENTZ, Thomas L. & DOYLE, Hilary Louis. Germany's Tiger tanks - VK45.02 to Tiger II: Design, production & modifications. Atglen (PA) : Schiffer Military History, 1997.

      JENTZ, Thomas L. & DOYLE, Hilary Louis. Germany's Tiger tanks - Tiger I & II: Combat tactics. Atglen (PA) : Schiffer Military History, 1997.

      Simply best sources about Tigers.

      Gun depressions for all German tanks can easily be checked from very basic book: Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two - By Peter Chamberlain, Hillary Doyle, and Thomas L. Jentz. It's absolutely clear that normal gun depressions in German tanks were usually about -8.

      I have all these books and literally hundereds more military books. If You dont believe me just tell me where to send some copies from them.

      Have been reading about warfare decades, have been playing all kind of war games since 1975. Setting tanks in fire by shooting them in lower plate is something I have never heard before playing WOT. Sherman has historically worst reputation of being flammable. Reason for that was weak ammorack, not flammable fluids.


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  7. > The real one was -20/+40.

    The real one is -19.5/+40!

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  8. I don't mean to rain on your parade Anonymous Tiger tank expert But when looking photos of knocked out Tiger tanks that have their 88s pointing towards the ground, it appears it barely gets to decline before the hull deck gets in the way. So regardless of what the turret would be capable of the hull does not allow for the numbers of -9 and so on, and -6 appears to be more realistic.

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    1. I must say that I trust more books written by experts than my own eyes looking old photographs. All books written by Jentz-Doyle give Tiger I gun depression -9(Gun depression of Tiger II varies from -8 to -7.4). And these books are based on original documents supplemented by "climbing over, under, around and through almost every surviving Tiger I"

      I'm now home with my beloved books. Didn't remember everything right earlier but now here is some exact data about Tiger speeds(from Jentz Tiger I & II: Combat tactics):
      Maximum Speed: Tiger I 45.4 km/hr, Tiger II 41.5 Km/hr
      Average sustained road speed: Tiger I 40 km/h, Tiger II 38 km/hr
      Maximum speed for Tiger I decreased to 37.8 km/hr and for the Tiger II to 34.6 km/hr after November 1943 when the HL230 motor was regulated not to exceed 2500 rpm.

      By the way it's well known that Tiger has very slow turret traverse compared to Sherman. Sherman can traverse it's turret 360 degrees in about 15 seconds and Tiger I needs about 60 seconds to do same. But it's rarely known that Tiger II can traverse it's turret 360 degrees in 19 seconds. Not bad for such heavy thing.

      And about gun depression and Panther. All Panthers have gun depression -8. (okay, three first had depression only -7.5 because gun sight hit it's mounting bracket). Even proposed 8.8 cm Kw.K. 43 L/71 Panther-Schmalturm was designed to have gun depression -8.(Jentz-Doyle Germany's Panther Tank The Quest for Combat Supremacy)

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    2. Do you have the page # for the Tiger 1's depression? It states -8 degrees on my copy on page 51 in DW to Tiger I. Seems like you are a degree off.

      Haven't read about the motor regulations, explains Soviet and American data better.

      I am not sold that there was no change in depression between the ausf. A&D turrets to the ausf. G turret due to the chin(skimmed Quest for Combat Supremacy couldn't find the ausf. G's depression). But hey I could be wrong.

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    3. You are right, I missed that page 51, it says -8 (and +15). But same book page 178 says -9 and +18. Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two gives Tiger I gun depression -9.

      Otherwise great book Quest for Combat Supremacy doesn't have exact information about gun depressions of all Panther types. But in Encyclopedia of German Tanks of World War Two all Panther types A, D ,G and F have gun depression -8.

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  9. once again, I am not saying that the Turret of Tiger tanks could not decline to -9 but that the hull limited the decline.

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    1. Sorry, but I just don't believe that. If gun is given depression data it's usually the real practical one when gun is facing forward. Can't find any written data to support your statement, can You?

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  10. The M8A1 doesn't need a buff because it has an open turret, weak armour, and can't use a vent. system and EXTREMELY poor gun depression on the side.

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