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Apr 4, 2013

8.5 Test Impressions

Just a bunch of impressions from the 8.5 test on the vehicles at hand. I'll be skipping the lowbies, I'll get straight to the good stuff: Indienpanzer, Leo prototyp A and Leopard I.

The Indienpanzer plays a lot like Panther or Panther II. The 90mm gun has a long aim time (2,9s), but it is reasonably accurate and fires fast enough. Its performance is comparable to the 88 L/71 (which is its mid gun) and the shells are cheap too, so this tank is easy to keep in black numbers, at least on the test. The frontal armor is amazing. Yes, it is not as amazing as on the Superpershing, but it has one massive advantage: the sloped part "eats" HEAT shells, they almost always bounce off. I bounced 2 gold shells in a row from a Chinese IS-2 (I know they were gold because the guy told me), that's like 300 nominal pen. Another amazing thing is the depression, it allows a lot of nice tactical maneuvers.
There are two big disadvantages though: the vehicle is nimble but it is slow and accelerates... not that well. Feels like a bit nimbler Panther II, which it definitely outperforms. Second is the turret and hull side armor, which is very weak and anything penetrates it. It's definitely NOT a brawler, more like a sniper. You won't lead any assaults with this tank, but if covered sufficiently by "bigger" targets (your heavies), you can do a LOT of damage. Also, the combination of the powerful gun and frontal armor makes the vehicle completely superior to anything below its tier to the point of absurdity - on long range though. On close ranges, the vehicle's chances are much, much lower. Unlock-wise, if you have the 88 L/71 unlocked from other vehicles (like I do), you can get it straight after getting the tracks, which is definitely good, as the extra engine and 90mm gun will take a while to get and the stock 88mm L/56 is totally hopeless on T8 even with gold shells.

Either way, it's a definitely enjoyable tank.

Leopard Prototyp A and Leopard I are basically the same tank with improved stats. The armor is nonexistent - you don't even have to bother with angling, whatever hits you goes thru, apart from some random high-angled shots. For Leopard Prototyp A, the 90mm gun left over from Indienpanzer seems to be the reasonable option, because its shells are 4x cheaper as those for the L7 - of course, they don't penetrate nearly as much, but as a flanker, you can afford it, because you'll be firing on the side hulls.
That's right: the Leopard, while it looks amazing (like a proper MBT), is NOT a battle tank. You can't slug it out with brawler specialists on close range, T-62 will chew you to pieces. You need to keep your distance and move a lot. With that being said, I think this tank will be the target of a lot of whine, because if you play it improperly, you will die. A lot. I didn't notice any serious problem with the ammorack with it (despite the fact it's situated behind frontal armor, at least in reality), but the driver seems to die often. If that happens, you HAVE to revive him, because immobile Leopard is dead, period.
The depression is kinda okay for this tank, but there are two not so obvious things to worry about. First: the silver shots for the L7 are classified as subcaliber, which means they lose a lot of pen over distance. Keep that in mind. Second, the "adhesiveness" of the Prototyp tracks is somewhat low. That tank drifts a lot, keep it in mind when driving downhill from El-Halluf.
The acceleration is not exactly spectacular, it's not a T-50-2, but on flat surface it catches speed quickly.

Will I level it up? At this moment, I'd say yes. Of course it could recieve some nerfs and we'll have to see, but the vehicle is nimble and thoroughly enjoyable. This is what I want a medium tank to be.

69 comments:

  1. One correction, the APCR shells (rather APDS) found in tier 10 guns, which are paid for silver, are not the same thing as APCR as gold ammo in most guns. APDS does not drop a lot penetration off unlike APCR. They behave more like regular AP shells, just with more penetration

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    Replies
    1. Indeed. Just gold payed APCR round have the big penetration drop. Normal APCR credit round act like AP rounds.
      B

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    2. Didn't know that, thank you

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    3. I remember reading about it in one of your wonderfull translations =]

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    4. Any proof for that?
      (except for what YOU wrote anywhere previously)
      Thank you.

      Delete
  2. Pretty much agree.

    I disliked the Leo P with the 105mm, maybe I should try the smaller gun.

    Indie is very good and the Leo 1 was also enjoyable.

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  3. I think the Indienpanzer will overperform easily and will get nerfed(maybe in a second test server). The Arbeitsgruppe A and the Leo 1 are good and high maneuverible tanks. The problem is that the Arbeitsgruppe A is quite easy to ammorack ( I killed !5! of them in 9 battles with ammoracks).
    But I love them all :3

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  4. the 105 on T9 Leo is a big POS. 90cm 5second>105 10seonds reload! plus it's alot cheaper. And the 212 pen is enough when paired with Leo good mobility. You can circle enemies and beat the shit out of them with the 90cm gun 10rof !!!

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    Replies
    1. AFAIK I will get both the tier 9 and 10 version of the Leo just to play both top tier only and a big low level noob bashing with the tier 9 Leo :D

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  5. so...frontal hits no longer sets you on fire...but blows up your ammo rack?

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    Replies
    1. Wet ammo rack and safe stowage my friend :)

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    2. Well,
      That escalated quickly.

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    3. Wet ammo rack doesn't help as much as you think. I know this from centurion 1 and 7. Safe stowage is more than enough to help you while you can remove wet ammo rack and replace it with a v.stab

      GradiusZA

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    4. It works.

      It's just that the Centurion has a really weak ammo rack. All the WAR does is increase the health of it by 50%. If the health is really low, it isn't much of an improvement. In the Centurion, its easier just to not get shot.

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  6. You can play the Indienpanzer without ever researching tracks. Of course it will most likely affect acc on the move and overall mobility, but you can mount all the top modules and vent, rammer, vert.stab without having weight problems

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  7. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  8. Replies
    1. 900mm on Indien-panzer? Seems legit :D Kills half its team, enemy team and leaves a crater of smoking wreck because of recoil.

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    2. So this is why SerB said that it will have a heavy gun.

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  9. i played both Leopards like my Hellcat.... no problem at all kiling stuff and dodging rounds, i love this tank allready....

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    Replies
    1. m18 plus tons of turret and tank traverse! seems fair!!!!

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  10. Seems exactly as I thought they would be. Can't wait to see the whining and bad win rate while those with skill can utilize the strengths.

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    Replies
    1. BTW SS, how is the on-the-move accuracy? I noticed the nominal soft stats aren't spectacular, but I figured that the combination will make a nice long-range moving sniper.

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    2. Feels good, but not spectacular. I think a lot of people expected something that can shoot a coin at 1km, but that's definitely not the case. It has to stop and stay hidden I'd say. Plus a good camo factor. Plays like a Hellcat - the speed serves only for fast flanking maneuvers, not to brawl.

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    3. I don't know how's Leos accuracy, but I have a question - on my T-50-2, I often hit tanks 200m away from me while I'm driving 70-80 km/h. Do you think similar action would be possible on one of the Leos? ;D

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    4. Well thats also what I expected from Leopard 1. Great accuracy on the move. No, I did not expect nothing magical like hitting everything while driving 60km/h. But what I did really expect was something like T62a (that thing is very accurate on the move). Tried it on server and it really feels that even E50m is quite more accurate on the move than Leopard 1.
      Didn't try it out much, so I can't say much, only that it felt ok, but at the moment I think I personally prefer some of the other T10 meds more.

      Delete
  11. The most important question: Overall, is the Leopard 1 better than the E50-M?

    Jediwomble

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    Replies
    1. Can't say, never played E-50M in randoms. It's a completely different tank though, much nimbler.

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    2. The only good thing about Leo 1 compared to E-50M is a bit better rof, HEAT shells and that's pretty much it.

      Other than that E-50M has pretty much the same mobility and gun.Plus E-50M you can :

      - ram the shit out of enemy tanks.
      - actually bounce even T10 shells with some angling

      Or basically Leo 1 is E-50M without armor, and no ramming ability.

      Delete
  12. Do you think that the mobility, camo and accuracy can allow it to get past its RoF Issues? Aside from that, I'll be getting the tank at least for its awesome looks... its just too damn sexy not to get hehe.

    Also: *Still bitter about the lack of changes for the vk3002(db)

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  13. hmm the 9cm gun looks much better on T9 leoP than royal 105 (seems like only A BIG attempt to slow grind-way to LEO...dpm is higher, ammo cheaper and 212mm pen in enough with proper aiming i guess...and i really looking for LEO, "not-noob-friedly" :D...

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  14. Have you met some supertester's new tanks as faillowe ? You can meet then in randoms ,right ?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. http://i47.tinypic.com/ncbksx.jpg
      Here is a picture. Isn't the FaiLöwe a bit small compared to the premium Löwe?

      Delete
  15. Any idea on the cammo index of the leopards?

    IMO they probably can't be used too much as a sniper I presume? The e50M is supposed to be a sniper, but has 0 cammo, so in reality the best sniper is the t62a...

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    Replies
    1. What I'm trying to get at, does it stack against the t62a (IMO best tier X tank)?

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  16. Is the leopard clan wars worthy?

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    Replies
    1. No. In CW they need firepower, Batchat and T-62A are most favoured

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    2. Leo might shine as spotter with its good camouflage, matching BatChat/T62A and bit better viewrange. Also gun + depression definitely will help in hill peekaboo.

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  17. I am pretty much tired of "Not brawling but fighting from distance" in grey tanks.

    Time to switch to green i think.

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  18. some screens of the new 'special' tier10s:
    http://s17.postimg.org/q33c8j7cf/shot_017.jpg
    http://s13.postimg.org/y4p8eao47/shot_016.jpg
    http://s15.postimg.org/92rnh3s0b/shot_021.jpg
    http://s3.postimg.org/b62pur4rn/shot_025.jpg
    /strv

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    Replies
    1. Armour models for the tier 10's


      M60
      http://i.imgur.com/qEumDPD.png

      VK7201
      http://images.4chan.org/vg/src/1365086287538.png

      Object 907
      http://i.imgur.com/S2gspnj.png
      http://i.imgur.com/UuzbAyF.png
      http://i.imgur.com/p38nbdS.png

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    2. the gun on obj907 is so full of fail...
      /strv

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    3. well, the overall armour on the tank isnt, for a medium... and with goldshells its the same as a t62a... if ill have to choose, it would be the Obj...any time

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  19. Started downloading 17:51 GMT+2 time. Downloading in Africa at only 400kb/s meh... Can't wait for new sexxeh german tanks >.<

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  20. I wonder... now we have a Leo1 witch is better in every way compared to the Centurion and FV4202. What about these british tank?
    Same gun no armor and a lot slower than the Leo : /

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. fv4202 can succesfully hulldown. It's turret is quite strong and hard to aim for a weakspot.

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  21. God let the M60 be part of the Tech Tree...Nothing Reward Based..

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    Replies
    1. sorry, but no. have a look at screens higher.
      /strv

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    2. Lol the m60 is in no way better than the m48 which is utter crap.

      Delete
  22. BTW, you mentioned that the purpose-made short-breech A3 variant of the L7 was made to provide 9 degrees depression in the Leo turret, the proto version uses the A1- does it have less depression?

    -Platypusbill

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    Replies
    1. Yep, -6 for both guns (L7 and 9cm) in Leo Prototype. And 10.5s reload is not good enough, tho accuracy and penetration are good.

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    2. So... Cent 7/1 with worse depression and much weaker frontal turret & hull armour, but way better speed...

      -Platypusbill

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  23. In that state what it is now i dont personally see
    much reasons to earn it.

    Bat chat is also paper armored
    but it is also fast,small target and magazine is painfull
    to enemies when it is full.

    T-62a is still much more nimble. Even its armors are
    bad. It is smaller target than Leo. Rof is amazing and turret can
    bounce shots.

    I wonder what are those things where Leo is better
    than others ?

    Even turret can be penerated by anyone who hit.
    there is no armors in anywhere in that tank.
    And it is quite big target.

    Im bit disapointed to leopard 1.
    It is not even nimple as t-62a.
    Ammorack is behind front armor.
    Wich got broken too easily.

    If that is meaned to be back line sniper
    then why not take e-50m instead.
    In front line it will die quite fast.

    If i can ask then least buff rof
    to actually compensate those huge weaknes what
    it have now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well that didn't take long...

      RoF is the same as the other "Western" Tier Tens get with the same gun, so Deal Wit It(tm). Accuracy characteristics are as good as the 50M's combined with much better gundep (which the Bat and T-62A are conversely kinda short on) so golly gee I does wonder how it's supposed to fight... *eyeroll*

      Delete
    2. Well i guess there is no way to germans
      actually got something what is better
      in some things than other nations counterparts.

      Can you see actual reason to earn that instead
      bat chat,t-62a or e-50m ?

      I dont have much experience about that fv 4202 or
      m48 patton.

      Delete
    3. Bat- infinitely worse accuracy/ aim time/ OTM accuracy/ consistent damage output, 6 degrees depression as opposed to 9

      T-62A- noticeably worse accuracy, slightly longer aim time, even crappier depression (5 degrees), much slower, less alpha.

      E-50M- huge target, sluggish acceleration and handling, 6 degrees depression, gun is +/- the same

      -M48- huge, the only parts that actually bounce shells are the upper plate and parts of the mantlet(both of which paper to tier X guns anyway), mediocre mobility across the board. Slightly longer view range, gun is a lot less accurate, has a minor RoF advantage. Same depression.

      FV4202- M48 with lower top speed but otherwise better mobility, gun is the same as or worse than the Leopard's in literally every single way. Best depression of the bunch, 10 degrees. Low profile adn decent armour, though.

      121- T-62A with more aplha damage and frontal armour, otherwise simply worse.

      -Platypusbill

      Delete
  24. Any news how to get the new tier 10s (M60, VK7201, Obj907)?

    ~Nolan

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    Replies
    1. They're probably rewards for Clan Wars, last I heard of them.

      Delete
  25. I tought Leo was supposed to have one special module to compensate it's gun, any news on that ?

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  26. "I didn't notice any serious problem with the ammorack"

    Rly???? First 2 battle i saw 1 indien panzer and 2 Leo prototyp blow up by ammo rack and when i play for LeoP and Leo1 in every battle ammorack was damaged

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  27. After just two battles with the Leo 1 and Leo PT I scored a total of 12 kills and over 8000 damage. It looks like those tanks were custom made for my taste.

    I got 8 kills with the LEO PT and 4 with the Leo 1 (both battles were lost :| -> russians)

    After playing 5 or so battles at tier 9-10 on the test, I noticed two leopards 1 that were set on fire, and my ammo rack was damaged once (with Leo PT). I also noticed a Leopard 1 surviving a frontal shot from a FV 215b (183)... or what's its name.

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  28. I wouldn't touch the Leos at all at the current point, the accuracy on the move are beyond a joke.

    Just posting the values here and you can make your own judgement

    Leo 0.18
    Leo PTA 0.2
    Cent MK3 0.18
    FV4204 0.18
    M46 0.12
    M48 0.1
    Bat 0.17
    Lor 0.17
    T54 0.14
    T62A 0.1
    E50 0.18
    E50M 0.14

    My personal opinion on that: Another master ruse plan of WG, make a medium tank that relies on agility to retain its edge unable to shot on the move... yeah. *trollface*


    As for the Indien panzer, its "ok" but its gets a MM value of 48, aka heavy MM value, and for that its stats are subpar.

    The real winner in this patch is the VK DB, it gets a nice overhaul, gundeprssion of 8°, nice rof boost some armor fixes/improvments, better ground resistance weight reduction in top configuration and only a slight nerf in hores power. Its a proper T7 medium now, comparable to the T43 or Comet.

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  29. The Indienpanzer sure has nice armor but it has terrible track bloom, so the 2.9 aim time is gonna feel a lot longer than on the Panther II which has much lower track aim bloom, and lower turret turn aim bloom too.

    -Psykmoe, NA

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  30. Played Leopard 1 on the test a bit more and read what people are writing on the forums. And I'll allow myself to quote someone from official forums, as what he wrote perfectly goes with what I thought of the tank.

    Loofah:
    "Leopard 1 - artillery clobbers it without mercy, sides get overmatched by 105mm guns and penetrated at any angle. Front is wet paper, and accuracy on the move is TERRIBLE.
    I mean, 0,18? What the hell? Even E-50M is way better than that (0,14) BatChat is better than that (0,17). So it has to stop to fire, and when it stops, it dies by artie in a fraction of a second.
    BatChat at least has almost whole sides covered by tracks, so HE and HESH don't penetrate it (they detonate on the tracks). Leopard has a huge part of the side not covered by tracks, so not only is the turret side vulnerable, but also whole length of the hull, and Leo is BIG and long (shooting at the turret side of speeding Batchat with HESH - super tricky, shooting at the whole long side of a speeding Leopard? Just aim a bit over the track, and even if you make a mistake, it's long enough so you'll hit -BC turret on the other hand is fairly short.
    Etc. etc. etc."
    Loofah:
    "IMO the main problem of Leo is really bad accuracy on the move. Way worse than E-50M, and there is no comparison between Leo and T-62A. And Leo is basically dead when it stops...
    If it gets fixed - it'll be a fine little tank. Right now it's "average" at best, and quite bad when it comes to receiving arty-hits (it gets penetrated 10 times more often than paper Batchat, because batchat at least has nice angles AND it has sides covered with tracks). I like my E-50M better."

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  31. I was afraid of this. Just gonna get the ProtoType, it'll be a trophy tank i driver around and dream im in anohter tank, lol.

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