- the 8.6 Batchat 155 arty confirmed to be T9
- the 8.6 German arty shown in the ASAP video is "GW Elefant", most likely T9, according to SerB it was "developed for a 210mm gun" (SS: a complete fake then, another made up vehicle)
- WZ-120 frontal upper armor angle is the same as the one of T-54. 112 and 113 have better angle. On 120 and 121 photos it can be seen- 60 degrees
- the new Soviet 8.6 arty is - as suspected previously - a SU-14-2 prototype. It however will not carry a proposed 305mm gun, nor will it be faster and less armored than the regular SU-14
- Japanese superheavy tanks did not have armor with effective slopes, they were made to be protected from nearby shell explosions of (up to) 406mm, the "40-roadwheel superheavy" was an O-I development, made by the Navy as a coastal defense vehicle. This vehicle blueprints exist in a private archive Wargaming is trying to buy for 2 years already - when it is bought, it will be published
- damaged fuel tanks on a WoT tank have no effect on anything, but completely destroyed fuel tanks cause a fire
- captured (German) KV-1 will have a different gun than the current KV-1, the captured T-34 will most likely have much better viewrange than the Soviet one (SS: it had a Panzer IV commander's copula mounted in by the Germans)
- apparently in 8.6 the S-51 will keep its 203mm gun
- there will be changes to premium accounts (for the benefit of the player), but what kind of changes, the devs won't tell for now
Also edited the 8.6 arty article for additional info
Apr 13, 2013
Extending the WOT german tech tree - Porsche Tank Destroyers
By Zarax
Disclaimer:
This is a purely speculative article that takes into account WOT german tech tree and uses historical tanks to speculate possible new tank additions.
While trying to keep the articles faithful to history some room for inaccuracy is allowed within these rules:
1) No tank or tank part will be 100% made up, at least a mention about tank role and vague specs are needed
2) Components not planned for the tank are allowed, provided it wouldn't create grotesque inaccuracies like putting a gun that would obviously cripple a tank under its weight
3) This will be limited to WWII plans, anything post war risks to be too arbitrary to properly balance
No serious expectation of anything listed to appear in WOT as described is applied, but as we're discussing about implementing history into an arcade game some items will be controversial.
This is unavoidable as WOT tech tree rules need a tank to be better than the previous one and ergonomics are not exactly cared about, meaning that most designs are over-performing their real counterparts.
Although Porsche is best known for the Ferdinand and the Maus, he worked on a plethora of lesser known designs, although most of them never left the paper stage.
Starting from 1943 and as the war material situation worsened he focused on lighter designs, some of which were tank destroyers.
By using the best sources at our disposal we're now able to attempt to reconstruct a Porsche TD line.
Beware, some designs are quite exotic but all of them are based on "Panzer Tracts 6-3", "Panzer Tracts 20-1", "Panzer Tracts 20-2" or "Special Panzer Variants".
Due to a lack of early designs, this tree will start from tier V, in my mind branching from either the Hetzer or the Panzer 38 Neuer Art:
Tier V: Porsche Typ 245/2
Based on the Porsche Typ 245 light tank design, this light assault gun was meant to double up as recon tank and use belt-fed weapons, eliminating the need for a loader.
Designed to be fairly well armored (60mm sloped frontal armor), it was planned to be fast with a 250HP air-cooled Porsche engine, which pushed its 15 tons at a top speed of 58 kilometers per hour, granting a pretty good 16HP/ton.
At around 1.5 meters of height and being shorter than the Hetzer, it was pretty short and hard to detect, making it a potentially great ambush tank.
Its planned armament was a 55mm Rheinmetall M112 autocannon with a traverse of 5° on each side, coupled with a light MG in the cupola.
We could estimate as upgrades that the tank could receive a Porsche Typ 100 engine variant, and keep relatively light armament.
I initially thought about 55mm Gerat 58 but it would look ridicolous on the tank, as well as its early relative 5cm Flak 41.
Considering larger guns, the 75mm L/48 would look quite big on the tank already, so it's likely we'll have to be limited to howitzers and short guns.
An autoloading variant of the 5cm L/60 cannon could be used with a 5 round drum, although lackluster penetration would not improve the situation by much.
105mm L/28 would match the tank pretty well, but it will likely mean giving up most traverse.
Stretching up a bit more, one could consider the 8cm PAW 600, which would give slightly better HE damage than a 75mm gun, however gold ammo is limited to 140ishmm HEAT penetration.
Alternatively, the 30mm MK103 or an autoloading 37mm with the uranium rounds could be considered, but this is borderline with history.
All in all, an excellent "flanking TD" useful for hunting scout tanks and protecting artillery but not exactly a pleasant grind.
Tier VI: Porsche Schwerer Kleiner Panzer
Sometimes confused with the E-25, this 1944 design was the ultimate "light" tank destroyer by Porsche.
Roughly the same size as its tier VI predecessor, it was designed to sport 120mm frontal armor, 4 man crew and a semi-automatic (mentioned as "belt-fed", likely an auto-loader) cannon plus a 30mm MK 103/108 in the small turret above.
A 500HP V-12 engine was supposed to push its 27 tons of weight to a top speed of 57 kilometers per hour, which at around 18HP/ton would have made the vehicle quite agile, although it's likely the weight was under estimated.
Weapon-wise, Spielberger states that the 105mm L/28 was originally planned, but later to be replaced with a semi-automatic 10.5cm cannon of higher performance.
In this case, one could assume we'd end up with a similar armament as the WOT Jagdpanther, although given the better chassis specs gun would inferior in performance, with in my opinion a final choice between a drum loaded version of the howitzer and the 88mm L/71 or 105mm L/47 if the 10H64 is not picked.
Engine-wise, we could maybe expect the same choice as Ferdinand or a bit lower in HP as the initial mobility is already quite good, with the possibility of the historical engine being the top one.
Tier VIII: Ferdinand
As the tank is already in WOT and no tier changes are expected, only minor adjustments are foreseen.
WOT already upgrades this tank above historical plans so not much could be said.
If one wanted to improve slightly historical accuracy an 88mm L/100 or 105mm L/68 could be used instead of the 128mm L/55 as they would be more plausible as upgrade but still fictional.
Tier IX: VK 70.01 (P)
The biggest historical stretch of this tree, but necessary to find a proper design for the tier, this was supposed to be Porsche proposal for the Lowe tank, dated 11 may 1942.
Coinciding with the "Schwerer Lowe" specifications, it was a 90 ton tank design, with 120mm front armor, 80-100mm side and armed with a 15cm L/40 (likely E-100s L/38) cannon.
2 Porsche engines of unknown power were supposed to push the tank at 30 kilometers per hour.
Now, for the speculative part:
A chassis length of over 7.7m is given, making it likely rear turreted, something that is to be expected by a Porsche design.
A width of around 3.8m is given, touching slightly above 4m with what is expected to be side skirts, or possibly with tracks mounted.
This would give it a pretty familiar look, one that WG took for tier X:
The image above is of course NOT historical and it's merely speculation on how the Schwerer Lowe turret would look with a chassis similar in size to the Porsche design, in this case the Sturmpanzer Bar.
Disclaimer:
This is a purely speculative article that takes into account WOT german tech tree and uses historical tanks to speculate possible new tank additions.
While trying to keep the articles faithful to history some room for inaccuracy is allowed within these rules:
1) No tank or tank part will be 100% made up, at least a mention about tank role and vague specs are needed
2) Components not planned for the tank are allowed, provided it wouldn't create grotesque inaccuracies like putting a gun that would obviously cripple a tank under its weight
3) This will be limited to WWII plans, anything post war risks to be too arbitrary to properly balance
No serious expectation of anything listed to appear in WOT as described is applied, but as we're discussing about implementing history into an arcade game some items will be controversial.
This is unavoidable as WOT tech tree rules need a tank to be better than the previous one and ergonomics are not exactly cared about, meaning that most designs are over-performing their real counterparts.
Although Porsche is best known for the Ferdinand and the Maus, he worked on a plethora of lesser known designs, although most of them never left the paper stage.
Starting from 1943 and as the war material situation worsened he focused on lighter designs, some of which were tank destroyers.
By using the best sources at our disposal we're now able to attempt to reconstruct a Porsche TD line.
Beware, some designs are quite exotic but all of them are based on "Panzer Tracts 6-3", "Panzer Tracts 20-1", "Panzer Tracts 20-2" or "Special Panzer Variants".
Due to a lack of early designs, this tree will start from tier V, in my mind branching from either the Hetzer or the Panzer 38 Neuer Art:
Tier V: Porsche Typ 245/2
Based on the Porsche Typ 245 light tank design, this light assault gun was meant to double up as recon tank and use belt-fed weapons, eliminating the need for a loader.
Designed to be fairly well armored (60mm sloped frontal armor), it was planned to be fast with a 250HP air-cooled Porsche engine, which pushed its 15 tons at a top speed of 58 kilometers per hour, granting a pretty good 16HP/ton.
At around 1.5 meters of height and being shorter than the Hetzer, it was pretty short and hard to detect, making it a potentially great ambush tank.
Its planned armament was a 55mm Rheinmetall M112 autocannon with a traverse of 5° on each side, coupled with a light MG in the cupola.
We could estimate as upgrades that the tank could receive a Porsche Typ 100 engine variant, and keep relatively light armament.
I initially thought about 55mm Gerat 58 but it would look ridicolous on the tank, as well as its early relative 5cm Flak 41.
Considering larger guns, the 75mm L/48 would look quite big on the tank already, so it's likely we'll have to be limited to howitzers and short guns.
An autoloading variant of the 5cm L/60 cannon could be used with a 5 round drum, although lackluster penetration would not improve the situation by much.
105mm L/28 would match the tank pretty well, but it will likely mean giving up most traverse.
Stretching up a bit more, one could consider the 8cm PAW 600, which would give slightly better HE damage than a 75mm gun, however gold ammo is limited to 140ishmm HEAT penetration.
Alternatively, the 30mm MK103 or an autoloading 37mm with the uranium rounds could be considered, but this is borderline with history.
All in all, an excellent "flanking TD" useful for hunting scout tanks and protecting artillery but not exactly a pleasant grind.
Tier VI: Porsche Schwerer Kleiner Panzer
Possibly one of the first drafts of the Porsche Typ 250, the Porsche Kleiner Panzerkampfwagen was an interesting project, based on the use of cast armor to speed up building.
Another relatively compact design, it was supposed to be 2.2m tall in it's largest version, 6.75 meters long and 3.15 meters wide.
Fairly well protected by an 80mm sloped front, it sported a 345HP Porsche V-10 engine pushing 25-26 tons, making it a still relatively agile vehicle at 13HP/ton, while crew was now composed by 4 members.
Its initial armament was supposed to be the 105mm L/28, with a 30mm autocannon as secondary weapon.
Top speed is not given but one could estimate around 45-50kmh on ideal terrain.
During its development upgrading the cannon was considered.
Sources are slightly sketchy on this though, as they state a 10.5cm PAW firing fin-stabilized ammo at 900m/s was planned.
Now, this leaves us in a bit of a conundrum:
While there was a 10.5 PAW firing fin-stabilized ammo (called 10H64, it reached prototype stage), it was rather a low velocity gun-howitzer meant to fire HE and HEAT than a long gun.
On the other side, the only gun in the german arsenal that could match the performance specs (105mm and 900m/s) would be the 105mm L/68 proposed for the Tiger II, which in its rifled version was estimated to reach around 860 m/s, but on the tank with a front mount it would make the tank almost twice as long, not to mention making it nose heavy and unmaneuverable in city or wooded terrain.
This leads me to two hypothesis:
1) The 10H64 was meant for a front mount, while the long 105 for a rear casemate. It could fit with some difficulty but there are no designs to support this.
2) Speculating on a wrong translation and given the british authors, it is more likely 900 feet per second were meant, a performance quite close to the 10H64 cannon.
Personally, I think the latter option is more likely, but given that in WOT smoothbore guns are not a welcome option (although in this case it would be a "derp gun") we could speculate the tank would mount yet another design as top gun, the 105mm L/47.
Rougly as long as the 88mm L/56, it was designed by Porsche to fit the VK 3001 (P)/Tiger (P) turret and we could estimate a similar performance as the russian 107mm or french 105mm of tiers V-VI.
As for mobility, it is likely the V-10 engine would be later replaced by a 500HP V-12 that was in development, granting it nearly 20HP/ton, pushing the top speed to over 50kmh.
Tier VII: Porsche Typ 255
Sometimes confused with the E-25, this 1944 design was the ultimate "light" tank destroyer by Porsche.
Roughly the same size as its tier VI predecessor, it was designed to sport 120mm frontal armor, 4 man crew and a semi-automatic (mentioned as "belt-fed", likely an auto-loader) cannon plus a 30mm MK 103/108 in the small turret above.
A 500HP V-12 engine was supposed to push its 27 tons of weight to a top speed of 57 kilometers per hour, which at around 18HP/ton would have made the vehicle quite agile, although it's likely the weight was under estimated.
Weapon-wise, Spielberger states that the 105mm L/28 was originally planned, but later to be replaced with a semi-automatic 10.5cm cannon of higher performance.
In this case, one could assume we'd end up with a similar armament as the WOT Jagdpanther, although given the better chassis specs gun would inferior in performance, with in my opinion a final choice between a drum loaded version of the howitzer and the 88mm L/71 or 105mm L/47 if the 10H64 is not picked.
Engine-wise, we could maybe expect the same choice as Ferdinand or a bit lower in HP as the initial mobility is already quite good, with the possibility of the historical engine being the top one.
Tier VIII: Ferdinand
As the tank is already in WOT and no tier changes are expected, only minor adjustments are foreseen.
WOT already upgrades this tank above historical plans so not much could be said.
If one wanted to improve slightly historical accuracy an 88mm L/100 or 105mm L/68 could be used instead of the 128mm L/55 as they would be more plausible as upgrade but still fictional.
Tier IX: VK 70.01 (P)
The biggest historical stretch of this tree, but necessary to find a proper design for the tier, this was supposed to be Porsche proposal for the Lowe tank, dated 11 may 1942.
Coinciding with the "Schwerer Lowe" specifications, it was a 90 ton tank design, with 120mm front armor, 80-100mm side and armed with a 15cm L/40 (likely E-100s L/38) cannon.
2 Porsche engines of unknown power were supposed to push the tank at 30 kilometers per hour.
Now, for the speculative part:
A chassis length of over 7.7m is given, making it likely rear turreted, something that is to be expected by a Porsche design.
A width of around 3.8m is given, touching slightly above 4m with what is expected to be side skirts, or possibly with tracks mounted.
This would give it a pretty familiar look, one that WG took for tier X:
Playing with similar designs, one could imagine the final product as something close to this brutal merge:
120-140mm frontal armor and E-100 level gun selection, it wouldn't be exactly top spec in either armor or firepower, so we could argue that this tank would be a turreted TD.
Starting with the 105mm L/68, one could likely grind the 128mm L/55 up to the 15cm L/38 or L/40.
Limiting slightly the turning ability an heavier gun could be likely carried, such as the 128mm L/61.
Tier X: Sturmpanzer Maus
The above is an artist impression, however it's pretty likely the Sturmpanzer Maus would have looked like that.
Developed in tandem with the JagdPanzer E-100, it was supposed to be pretty similar in gun selection, with a choice between the 15cm L/63 (or L/68) or the same 17cm carried by the Jagdpanzer E-100.
A relatively simple trade-off, it would get slightly better armor in exchange for slightly worse mobility.
Aside from the above mentioned guns, extra long 128mm cannons up to L/76 were mentioned, however it is unlikely they could bring much tactical benefit, although one could prefer an extremely precise low alpha cannon.
With this, the line ends.
Although some pretty heavy streching from history has been taken in some cases, all tanks above existed at least in plan form as a list of specification.
No fantasy tanks or Wargaming developers have been harmed in the making of this article.
8.6 - new tanks (summary)
So, last few hours have been quite interesting, regarding what will be the content of the 8.6 patch. What we think there will be and was (somewhat) confirmed is the following
New German arty
Apparently, it's a Geschützwagen (GW) based on the Porsche Tiger suspension. The gun seems like something shorter and large caliber. I think we can safely assume this thing will go between GW Panther and GW Tiger (logical choice, putting it between GW T and GW E wouldn't fit historically), so GW Tiger and GW E will be kicked up to tier 10. As far as I can tell however, the arty is not historical, there was no Tiger (P) based artillery vehicle designed - but I will doublecheck.
Edit: According to SerB it's "GW Elefant", built for a 210mm gun. This vehicle is however not in Doyle or Spielberger books I believe.
New French arty
What is that? I don't know. The hull has been identified as being the one of M47 Patton, the turret looks like a Batchat155, but could be really anything. Can't tell you any history of that one. It's probably not made up however, as the French experimented with all sorts of American hulls and they also (as one of the first European nations) had large amounts of M46/M47 pattons at their disposal.)
Edit: The_Chieftain refers to it as "Batchat 155 55" (eg. a 1955 model of the Batchat artillery).
Edit 2: Confirmed by Storm to be T9
New Soviet arty
This vehicle has been identified as the SU-14 arty prototype (based on the T-35 hull). There were two made - one with a casemate, one without it. It can be assumed that the lack of casemate will allow it to carry heavier weaponry, so it might be implemented after the current tier 6 SU-14.
Historical picture:
New American arty
This one we know a lot about, because The_Chieftain talked about it in his 12 hour stream show (awesome event by the way, why can't EU server have something like that?), it can be found roughly at 6h30min mark onwards.
Tier 7 - the new vehicle will be the M44 SPG
It's - to quote The_Chieftain: "...basically a M41 Bulldog chassis that you stick a 6 inch gun on". More can be found here. The main armament is a 155mm howitzer and it should be pretty nimble. Chieftain said it's going to be very mobile and it's going to have a nice arc of travel.
Tier 9 - the new vehicle will be the M53/55 SPG
Basically it's a heavy SPG, based on the M47 Patton tank chassis. The M53 is the 155mm version, M55 a 203mm version (more here). Chieftain stated that if you like the GW Panther, you're gonna like this vehicle. The traverse is 30 degrees each way.
It's confirmed the T8 will become T10 in the US tree.
Finally, possible new Chinese premium tank (thanks to Fugaku, US forums for posting this).
As you can see, it's 113-ish hull and a 111 turret, possibly with some 122mm gun mutation. Not much else is known and it's highly unlikely anything will be found until its introduction, as virtually nothing is known of these vehicles.
New German arty
Apparently, it's a Geschützwagen (GW) based on the Porsche Tiger suspension. The gun seems like something shorter and large caliber. I think we can safely assume this thing will go between GW Panther and GW Tiger (logical choice, putting it between GW T and GW E wouldn't fit historically), so GW Tiger and GW E will be kicked up to tier 10. As far as I can tell however, the arty is not historical, there was no Tiger (P) based artillery vehicle designed - but I will doublecheck.
Edit: According to SerB it's "GW Elefant", built for a 210mm gun. This vehicle is however not in Doyle or Spielberger books I believe.
New French arty
What is that? I don't know. The hull has been identified as being the one of M47 Patton, the turret looks like a Batchat155, but could be really anything. Can't tell you any history of that one. It's probably not made up however, as the French experimented with all sorts of American hulls and they also (as one of the first European nations) had large amounts of M46/M47 pattons at their disposal.)
Edit: The_Chieftain refers to it as "Batchat 155 55" (eg. a 1955 model of the Batchat artillery).
Edit 2: Confirmed by Storm to be T9
New Soviet arty
This vehicle has been identified as the SU-14 arty prototype (based on the T-35 hull). There were two made - one with a casemate, one without it. It can be assumed that the lack of casemate will allow it to carry heavier weaponry, so it might be implemented after the current tier 6 SU-14.
Historical picture:
New American arty
This one we know a lot about, because The_Chieftain talked about it in his 12 hour stream show (awesome event by the way, why can't EU server have something like that?), it can be found roughly at 6h30min mark onwards.
Tier 7 - the new vehicle will be the M44 SPG
Tier 9 - the new vehicle will be the M53/55 SPG
Basically it's a heavy SPG, based on the M47 Patton tank chassis. The M53 is the 155mm version, M55 a 203mm version (more here). Chieftain stated that if you like the GW Panther, you're gonna like this vehicle. The traverse is 30 degrees each way.
It's confirmed the T8 will become T10 in the US tree.
Finally, possible new Chinese premium tank (thanks to Fugaku, US forums for posting this).
As you can see, it's 113-ish hull and a 111 turret, possibly with some 122mm gun mutation. Not much else is known and it's highly unlikely anything will be found until its introduction, as virtually nothing is known of these vehicles.
Buff My Tank: M3 Lee (Speed Demon?)
Author: Priory_of_Sion
The infamous tier 4 US, the M3 Lee has a reputation of being one of the worst vehicles in WoT. I personally feel the Lee is a little misunderstood but it does need a buff.
So what can be done to the M3 Lee to make it a little more enjoyable? WG could fiddle around with the camo rating, accuraccy, and other game balancing stats. Here I am looking for more experimental upgrades.
A common suggestion is for use of the 37 mm gun. I don't think this would help a great deal. IRL the 75 mm gun was a better AT weapon(with AP rounds) and the 37 mm wouldn't be worth using most of the time. The 75 mm on the Lee is a good weapon in game anyway. IRL the M3 Lee never mounted or was proposed with a more powerful gun than the M3 75 mm gun. So we will have to look elsewhere for our upgrade.
The US did experiment with a very powerful engine with the Lee. The M3 Lee's mobility isn't the greatest but IRL the Lee was a testbed for a 560 hp engine, the Lycoming T1300 engine. The Hp/t ration should be a very good ~ 20 Hp/t.
The Lycoming T1300 allowed the M3 Lee to reach speeds up to 65 km/h according to unofficial reports. I would suggest WG to look into mounting the Lycoming engine in the M3 Lee. This upgrade should help make up for the lack of a turret and would allow the Lee to get into better ambush positions to allow full usage of the awesome DPM.
Sources:
Sherman: History of the American Medium Tank by R. P. Hunnicutt.
Edited in by Silentstalker (sorry, couldn't resist):
The infamous tier 4 US, the M3 Lee has a reputation of being one of the worst vehicles in WoT. I personally feel the Lee is a little misunderstood but it does need a buff.
So what can be done to the M3 Lee to make it a little more enjoyable? WG could fiddle around with the camo rating, accuraccy, and other game balancing stats. Here I am looking for more experimental upgrades.
A common suggestion is for use of the 37 mm gun. I don't think this would help a great deal. IRL the 75 mm gun was a better AT weapon(with AP rounds) and the 37 mm wouldn't be worth using most of the time. The 75 mm on the Lee is a good weapon in game anyway. IRL the M3 Lee never mounted or was proposed with a more powerful gun than the M3 75 mm gun. So we will have to look elsewhere for our upgrade.
The US did experiment with a very powerful engine with the Lee. The M3 Lee's mobility isn't the greatest but IRL the Lee was a testbed for a 560 hp engine, the Lycoming T1300 engine. The Hp/t ration should be a very good ~ 20 Hp/t.
This engine was mounted in the M3A1 #1986 which was renamed the M3A1E1 in Feb. 1942.
Sources:
Sherman: History of the American Medium Tank by R. P. Hunnicutt.
Edited in by Silentstalker (sorry, couldn't resist):