Mar 16, 2013
For the Record on Facebook
Hey - just a quick note: I created a Facebook page, where I will re-post the articles from For the Record - for those who like that sort of thing (after all, commenting on FB is kinda comfortable). You can find the page here:
16.3.2013
- according to Yuri Pasholok, there was a plan for an artillery vehicle based on the IS-4 chassis, but no details were discovered
- additional equipment/consumable slots are not planned, not even for gold
- according to SerB, things get sometimes forgotten in the patchnotes
- Firefighting skill does not enhance the speed of the automatic (golden) fire extinguisher
- new Chinese premium vehicles in near future? "If we decided to implement, I'll tell you"
- more models for destroyed tanks are planned
- gold consumables for silver confirmed (unknown ETA)
- no extra balancing for platoons planned (SS: for example matching of tiers, so both team has platoons with same tier vehicles)
- according to SerB, the most common battle result is somewhere between 15:7 and 15:9
- Soviets won't get a special branch of vehicles constructed by N.Astrov (SS: T-30,60,70,80,SU-76M, ASU-57, ASU-85, but also the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" and others) because there wouldn't be enough vehicles for such a branch
- the frequency of spot checks will possibly be increased, but SerB states the algorithm is quite requiring server-wise
- SerB states there won't be an option for a player to see who added him as a friend (friendship in WoT is not symmetrical, eg. a player can add you but you don't have to add him). There will however be a function that will allow you to accept private chats only from people in your friendslist
- T-60 and T-50-2 are in two different branches, the introduction of T-60/70/80 will not influence the characteristics of T-50-2
- guns with muzzle brake reduce camouflage of the vehicle more than guns without it when shooting (they will demask you more)
- you get extra XP for base capture points you accumulated even if the battle ends by destroying the enemies, you get this extra XP for capturing enemy base even if the enemies capture your base first
- IS-7 will get a buff ("let's wait for test with details")
- there won't be any "East Germany" (DDR) premium tanks for now - but if there ever are, it will most likely be T-34/85 premium (T-55 is tier 9)
- the map in the Development section scheduled for 8.5 is the Pearl River
- additional equipment/consumable slots are not planned, not even for gold
- according to SerB, things get sometimes forgotten in the patchnotes
- Firefighting skill does not enhance the speed of the automatic (golden) fire extinguisher
- new Chinese premium vehicles in near future? "If we decided to implement, I'll tell you"
- more models for destroyed tanks are planned
- gold consumables for silver confirmed (unknown ETA)
- no extra balancing for platoons planned (SS: for example matching of tiers, so both team has platoons with same tier vehicles)
- according to SerB, the most common battle result is somewhere between 15:7 and 15:9
- Soviets won't get a special branch of vehicles constructed by N.Astrov (SS: T-30,60,70,80,SU-76M, ASU-57, ASU-85, but also the ZSU-23-4 "Shilka" and others) because there wouldn't be enough vehicles for such a branch
- the frequency of spot checks will possibly be increased, but SerB states the algorithm is quite requiring server-wise
- SerB states there won't be an option for a player to see who added him as a friend (friendship in WoT is not symmetrical, eg. a player can add you but you don't have to add him). There will however be a function that will allow you to accept private chats only from people in your friendslist
- T-60 and T-50-2 are in two different branches, the introduction of T-60/70/80 will not influence the characteristics of T-50-2
- guns with muzzle brake reduce camouflage of the vehicle more than guns without it when shooting (they will demask you more)
- you get extra XP for base capture points you accumulated even if the battle ends by destroying the enemies, you get this extra XP for capturing enemy base even if the enemies capture your base first
- IS-7 will get a buff ("let's wait for test with details")
- there won't be any "East Germany" (DDR) premium tanks for now - but if there ever are, it will most likely be T-34/85 premium (T-55 is tier 9)
- the map in the Development section scheduled for 8.5 is the Pearl River
Mar 15, 2013
15.3.2013
- teamkills committed by arty will not be punished stricter than regular teamkills (SS: a light tank player was complaining about the arty ordering him what to do and teamkilling when he doesn't do it)
- ASU-85 will not be introduced apparently
- the amount of shells left in your ammo rack does not influence the chance for ammorack explosions (SS: but if the rack is completely empty, it can't explode - that's one exception)
- 6th sense (and other perks apparently) work even if the crew is not trained to 100 percent (SS: for example when re-training crew from vehicle 1 to vehicle 2 for silver, if vehicle 1 crew has 100 percent 6th sense perk training and gets re-trained to 75 percent basic training, the perk will still work)
- hardcore mode was scrapped - SerB: "Noone needs this garbage. Everyone wants it really badly, but practically noone plays it - that can be seen on other projects."
- there won't be AI driven bots in near future
- there is no "okay, that's enough", regarding the amount of vehicles for respective nations
- when you hit a drowned tank, the damage doesn't count to your total damage done
- shooting drowning tanks has a reason only to give you extra silver, it won't punish them more, they will already pay full repair costs
- damage awarded for lighting up a target is distributed evenly between all the scouts lighting the target at the time of damage
- SerB doesn't think the tier 7 premium T-44A will be a fail
- HEAT shells (when hitting the engine module) do not have an increased chance to set it on fire, same goes for ammo rack
- the amount of XP needed to train 3+ skills on the crew won't be reduced ("it's set so that you have to choose")
- no plans to introduce a research transition from arties to regular tanks
Also, Storm made an article about graphics on the developer blog, where he asks players, what they think of them. Not too much info can be gleaned from it, but some bits perhaps. Please note that I don't understand graphic terms, so some translations might be off.
- shadows won't return to the old render
- old render won't be optimalized, devs won't touch it at all, all the new features will be introduced to the new one
- trees can heavily reduce FPS even on good computers, if that happens, Storm recommends lowering the tree quality
- Ruinberg streets will be flattened (SS: in 8.5 I think)
Overlord also provides some pieces of information:
- arty will definitely not be removed from the game (I wonder why people still ask that)
- the issue with arty hardcap is long waiting time
-
- ASU-85 will not be introduced apparently
- the amount of shells left in your ammo rack does not influence the chance for ammorack explosions (SS: but if the rack is completely empty, it can't explode - that's one exception)
- 6th sense (and other perks apparently) work even if the crew is not trained to 100 percent (SS: for example when re-training crew from vehicle 1 to vehicle 2 for silver, if vehicle 1 crew has 100 percent 6th sense perk training and gets re-trained to 75 percent basic training, the perk will still work)
- hardcore mode was scrapped - SerB: "Noone needs this garbage. Everyone wants it really badly, but practically noone plays it - that can be seen on other projects."
- there won't be AI driven bots in near future
- there is no "okay, that's enough", regarding the amount of vehicles for respective nations
- when you hit a drowned tank, the damage doesn't count to your total damage done
- shooting drowning tanks has a reason only to give you extra silver, it won't punish them more, they will already pay full repair costs
- damage awarded for lighting up a target is distributed evenly between all the scouts lighting the target at the time of damage
- SerB doesn't think the tier 7 premium T-44A will be a fail
- HEAT shells (when hitting the engine module) do not have an increased chance to set it on fire, same goes for ammo rack
- the amount of XP needed to train 3+ skills on the crew won't be reduced ("it's set so that you have to choose")
- no plans to introduce a research transition from arties to regular tanks
Also, Storm made an article about graphics on the developer blog, where he asks players, what they think of them. Not too much info can be gleaned from it, but some bits perhaps. Please note that I don't understand graphic terms, so some translations might be off.
- shadows won't return to the old render
- old render won't be optimalized, devs won't touch it at all, all the new features will be introduced to the new one
- trees can heavily reduce FPS even on good computers, if that happens, Storm recommends lowering the tree quality
- Ruinberg streets will be flattened (SS: in 8.5 I think)
Overlord also provides some pieces of information:
- arty will definitely not be removed from the game (I wonder why people still ask that)
- the issue with arty hardcap is long waiting time
-
Mar 14, 2013
14.3.2013
- the 25 percent spread of damage and penetration is not tied to each other (eg. if a max penetration with 25 percent bonus is applied, it does not mean you will deal maximum damage too)
- T-34-1 would underperform without the 100mm gun
- multicore support "is there for a long time already" (Storm: When the client physics is introduced, the second core will be loaded more)
- new servers will be introduced in the future
- the concept of converting free XP to crew XP (for gold) has been refused
- separation of company and random stats confirmed
- it's not clear whether KV-2 will appear in historical battles, so far the general concept is ready, not the roles of individual tanks
- it won't be possible to buy two premium tanks of the same type in the future
- British pink desert camo? "I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it, it existed"
- it's not banned to actually stream your fight (even though the enemy can theoretically go and see on the stream where you and your allies are): the reason is that to do so is just too slow and ineffective
- models of tanks will be reworked (parts of the hull will be flying off when hit), but not very soon
- camo mechanism will be changed at the earliest in 0.9.0 ("will tell later what I will do")
- Havok client physics - players will be able to disable it
- Ensk wagons will be made more visible separatedly
- viewrange 445m limit will not be removed
- IS7 ROF will not be increased apparently
- SerB states that players with too many complains are investigated, not banned automatically
And a few misc informations:
- Russian server had today a patch where the 83mm shell price was reduced from 260 to 170 credits.*trollface*
- German 0.8.5 patch: several new maps apparently, the official Leopard photos are out too. Looks nice!
- the In Development section showed an official screenie of the T-60 tank. It's reasonable to assume that the T-70 and T-80 (they were tested together) will come with it in 0.8.5
New KTTC video (well, ASAP)
Can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/6423-asap-video-producer-mikhail-zhivets-reporting/
Inside:
- why was Prokhorovka changed (balance, issues with the maps, the Prokhorovka was smoothed)
- 8.5 new Asian river map (SS: well, actually there might be 3 new maps in 8.5 *wink*)
- British TD - heavy armor, unusual vehicles
- high tier premium arty - not for all nations apparently
- Sexton will become British
- Soviet T7 medium premium tank (Prototype T-44 with 85mm gun)
- gold shell for credits will stay
- horns were scrapped
- Sturmtiger: postponed till 2014
- Storm is happy with the tutorial, will be developed further
- T-34-1 would underperform without the 100mm gun
- multicore support "is there for a long time already" (Storm: When the client physics is introduced, the second core will be loaded more)
- new servers will be introduced in the future
- the concept of converting free XP to crew XP (for gold) has been refused
- separation of company and random stats confirmed
- it's not clear whether KV-2 will appear in historical battles, so far the general concept is ready, not the roles of individual tanks
- it won't be possible to buy two premium tanks of the same type in the future
- British pink desert camo? "I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it, it existed"
- it's not banned to actually stream your fight (even though the enemy can theoretically go and see on the stream where you and your allies are): the reason is that to do so is just too slow and ineffective
- models of tanks will be reworked (parts of the hull will be flying off when hit), but not very soon
- camo mechanism will be changed at the earliest in 0.9.0 ("will tell later what I will do")
- Havok client physics - players will be able to disable it
- Ensk wagons will be made more visible separatedly
- viewrange 445m limit will not be removed
- IS7 ROF will not be increased apparently
- SerB states that players with too many complains are investigated, not banned automatically
And a few misc informations:
- Russian server had today a patch where the 83mm shell price was reduced from 260 to 170 credits.*trollface*
- German 0.8.5 patch: several new maps apparently, the official Leopard photos are out too. Looks nice!
New KTTC video (well, ASAP)
Can be found here: http://worldoftanks.eu/news/6423-asap-video-producer-mikhail-zhivets-reporting/
Inside:
- why was Prokhorovka changed (balance, issues with the maps, the Prokhorovka was smoothed)
- 8.5 new Asian river map (SS: well, actually there might be 3 new maps in 8.5 *wink*)
- British TD - heavy armor, unusual vehicles
- high tier premium arty - not for all nations apparently
- Sexton will become British
- Soviet T7 medium premium tank (Prototype T-44 with 85mm gun)
- gold shell for credits will stay
- horns were scrapped
- Sturmtiger: postponed till 2014
- Storm is happy with the tutorial, will be developed further
"Devil wears Praga" - a 38t Praga TD proposal
"Devil wears Praga" - a 38t Praga TD branch proposal
Hello everyone,
recently, an attempt to re-work the current German TD branches has been published on the EU forums. I did not like it - too many fantasy designs (including the usual suspects, such as the "Krokodil") and it was generally just mashing up for the sake of mashup. Well, here's a thought: a lot of people asked thru the months, how would the leicht Waffeträgers (Ardelt, Ardelt-Krupp, Ardelt-Steyr) fit into World of Tanks. Well, I think I found a proper way. Surprisingly, thru the hull/suspension.
The famous LT-38 light tank (known as Panzer 38t) evolved from the basic Praga TNH variant, which in turn, was built around the Praga TN engine (TNH means TN - housenkový: 'tracked'). This is not the place to describe its journey, but from the basic TNH, meant for export to Iran, the Panzer 38t would eventually evolve. The LT-38 was a great tank, judged by many (including Mr. H.Doyle) to be one of the best pre-war light tanks in the world, surpassing the Panzer I and Panzer II light tanks completely. When Czechoslovakia surrendered to Hitler after the western powers betrayed it during the Munich conference, a number of those vehicles, intended for the Czechoslovak army, was captured and later used by Germans to fight in Poland, France and against Soviet Union. But it was just a light tank - its armor and armament couldn't keep up with the enemy medium and heavy designs of 1941/1942. One part never got old though - the suspension. Simply put, it was great. It was valued by the Germans greatly and became the basis for whole series of various vehicles, from recovery vehicles over tank destroyers to self-propelled guns. In late 1944, a decision was even made in connection with phasing out of the Panzer IV production, only 3 platforms will be manufactured in 1945: the Tiger platform, the Panther platform and the 38d platform. But we'll get to that.
Basically, here's a tank destroyer branch proposal based on the 38t/d suspension. Let's look at it.
Changes in the original branch
Before we can start building a new branch, we have to modify the old one a bit. The old branch has something we need: the Hetzer, built on the 38t chassis. That's why I suggest the following:
- remove the Hetzer from the branch
- replace the tier 4 tank destroyer slot with the historical StuG III. Ingame StuG III has 80mm frontal armor and an unhistorical gun (the L/70). Regarding the gun - the latest StuG III version manufactured (the Ausf.G) had the StuK 40 L/48. There was a proposal project to arm the StuG with the L/70, designated Ausf.H (as far as I know), but that never reached a prototype stage. So, give the StuG its historical early version armor (50mm front), its historical gun (L/48), it would make a nice T4.
- put the StuG IV on tier 5. Well, here we'd have to improvise a bit. StuG IV has enough armor for T5 (80mm front), but it still carries the L/48. Basically, a StuG IV with L/70 mounted was renamed to Jagdpanzer IV, but I think we can still work with that.
StuG IV
Alternatively, we can put the StuG III Ausf. H project on T5, but that probably wouldn't work too well, as the vehicle is similiar. What would however work would be T4 StuG III "early" (let's say until Ausf. F/8) while the T5 would be StuG III "late" (Ausf.G,H) with schürzen.
StuG III Ausf.G
The StuG III Ausf.H (its real project name was 7,5 cm PaK 42 L/70 auf StuG III) is sort-of historical. A project for re-arming the StuG III was made in 1943 by Alkett. The rearming was ordered by Hitler himself in December 1942. A wooden mockup was made. After the war, the mockup was captured by the Americans and ended up in Aberdeen. The gun wouldn't however fit in normally - the superstructure was radically reworked. Thus, the ingame StuG III with original superstructure but the L/70 cannon is a fake.
The new branch
So, now that we have the Hetzer available, let's have a look at how such a tree would work:
T2: Panzerjäger I
T3: Marder III Ausf.M
T4: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer"
T5: Hetzer (Krupp) or Aufklärungspanzer 38
T6: Jagdpanzer 38d
T7: Waffenträger Ardelt
T8: Waffenträger Ardelt-Krupp
T9: Waffenträger Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm
T10: Waffenträger Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm/150mm
Tier 3: Marder III Ausf.M
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_III
The history of Marder III is described pretty much everywhere, it's a rather known vehicle. In the end, it doesn't really matter which Ausführung you choose, because none of them had usually compatible weapons. The first Marder III, known as Panzerjäger 38t, was equipped with the Sovier 76,2mm gun (PaK 36(r)), modified to fire the German 75mm rounds. Later variants (Ausf.H and M) were fitted with the 75mm Pak 40/3 gun. From what I could find, no Marder III was originally armed with a 50mm gun, so there would be little continuity from the Panzerjäger I. However, given the fact that the second German branch announced by Wargaming (the one with the Waffenträger E-100) has Marder III on T3 slot too, I don't think Wargaming would see this as a problem (or it would dish out some unhistorical mashup of the various Marder III models). Either way, this vehicle is hard to make completely historically, so some suspension of disbelief is necessery.
Weapons: (?) 50mm PaK 39 L/60, 76,2mm PaK 36(r), 75mm PaK 40/3
Tier 4: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer"
Source: http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Hetzer
Here it's kinda pointless to add anything, the vehicle is already in the game and it works fine. Just refer to WoTwiki for details.
Weapons: 75mm StuK40, 75mm PaK39, 105mm StuH 42
Tier 5: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer" (Kruppvorschlag)
In November 1944, Krupp made several proposals regarding the rearming ("Umbewaffnung") of existing hulls. Amongst them was a proposal to upgrade the Hetzer with a superstructure and to mount the 75mm KwK 42 (L/70) gun within. The design had some serious flaws. In order to install the superstructure, the engine and crew compartment would have to be completely reworked. Also, it was doubtful whether the original 38t suspension could hold the weight of the added weight - in order to reach a sufficient level of protection, it would have to carry 18 tons. According to the WaPrüf6 report, this vehicle would have about the same characteristics as the Jagdpanzer IV lang (A), currently being recalled from the front for being a failure.
This project never reached prototype stage. A great number of Krupp redesign project was most likely motivated (the way the 3rd Reich worked) by the attempt to secure further contracts. Most of the design proposals were rejected in January 1945 - it was no time for introduction of new projects. Krupp returned to this concept with a similiar construction, built on 38d hull - with marginally better parameters.
We can only estimate how such a vehicle would behave game-wise. It would most likely have thinner armor and would be slower than the current StuG III, which would have to be compensated by different weaponry.
Weapons: 75mm StuK40, 105mm StuH 42, 75mm KwK 42, PAW600 (German advanced gun project - 81,4mm smoothbore gun, firing HEAT rounds of roughly 140mm penetration)
Tier 6: Jagdpanzer 38d
The Jagdpanzer 38d was based on an evolution of the 38t suspension. Originally, it was called 38 "Reich", but quickly got renamed to 38d (Deutsch). Basically, in September 1944, OKH (army high command) decided they want a new light tank destroyer, based on the 38t chassis. There was a problem however: the 38t chassis was ill-suited for German mass production (due to the way it was manufactured, Czech industrial methods were different from the ones of Germany and could not be copied easily). Thus it was decided the suspension would be modified using the German methods. This project was designed by Alkett and and re-named 38 Ausführung Reich. Basically, the suspension was made 60mm wider and its final drive was strenghtened. In the meanwhile, in October 1944, it was decided to limit the future production of the Third Reich to only three platforms: the Tiger, the Panther and the 38(t/d). The project was finished really quickly - in November 1944, the basic works were finished (by that time it was renamed 38d.) The result was actually quite good and a new tank destroyer was planned based on it. It was to resemble the original 38t, but it was to carry either the 75mm PaK39 L/48 or the 75mm KwK 42 cannon. A version for 105mm StuH42/2 was also concieved. The frontal armor was projected at 60mm. It was projected to be propelled by the Tatra T103 220hp engine, propelling it to 40 km/h.
In January 1945, a detailed meeting of the Entwicklungskomission Panzer in Obering took place, where the plans for the development and production were laid forth, but by then the war was only months from its end. Some plans were made, but they never came to fruition. Two partially assembled prototypes were made by Alkett, but it's unlikely the company ever made them running.
In the game, this could be the "Hetzer on steroids", but truth to be told, it's not that different from the original Hetzer. It would however be rather small - that means good camo rating. The weapons choice is a bit lackluster, but it'll get better.
Weapons: 75mm PaK39 L/48, 105mm StuH 42, 75mm KwK 42, PAW600
Tier 7 onwards - the Waffenträgers
Here it's starting to get a bit complicated. Originally, I thought about the Jagdpanzer 38d (project Krupp) on this spot. It was basically a Jagdpanzer 38d with a superstructure, in the back, armed with a top-of-the-line PAW1000 gun (essentially a smoothbore HEAT-firing German gun, capable of penetrating cca 200mm of armor). It looked like this:
But it has two problems. First: it uses the PAW1000 which is smoothbore (well, at least it's historical), but not the 88mm PaK 43, which would get skipped, only to return on tier 8. That's just weird. Furthermore, the vehicle wasn't exactly stellar. As with the 38t Krupp proposal, the chassis was rather stressed and the characteristics wouldn't be exactly great. I was thinking of adding some later (rifled) variant (81mm L/105 prototype - yes, such a thing existed), but I am not sure it would fit the superstructure. Thus, it would be historically correct to continue with the Waffenträgers.
"Waffenträger" in German means "weapons carrier" - and that's exactly what the Waffenträgers were. If we skip all the improvised weapons carries, made either from captured or German knocked-out tech, the idea to make an unified mass-produced weapons carriers came to be in early 1944. In January 1944, a conference took place between the members of the army and the industry representatives. The army complained that the PaK 42 and PaK 43 cannons were simply way too heavy to manhandle and impossible to tow without special artillery tractors. It was a reasonable complaint - Doyle mentions one incident, when brand new 88mm PaK 43 cannons had to be destroyed without firing a single shot in order to prevent them from falling to the enemy - just because there were no towing vehicles available. Thus a decision was made to mount all the heavy anti-tank guns on a simple, effective and cheap 38t platform, designated as "Einheitsfahrgestell", or "unified platform". Hitler personally started messing around too, ordering the abovementioned decision thru one of his directives and so the Waffenträger concept was born.
The first one to react to this new demand was Ardelt. Its 88mm PaK 43 Waffenträger proposal was made in two versions: one lighter, practically without any protection weighting 10 tons, one protecting the crew at least from small arms fire, weighting 13 tons, having a fully revolving turret. Versions for 75mm PaK 42, 105mm leFH 18/40 and 88mm PaK 43 (L/71) were concieved. This design (with two 1:10 models) was presented to Hitler in late January - Hitler, after seeing it, decided to go straight for the 88mm version, using the "Kreuzlafette" (cross mount). The vehicle was to be equipped with the L/71 gun with 50 rounds of ammo, with depression/elevation of -8/+45 degrees. The gun for the Ardelt project was to be modified by Rheinmetall Borsig. The armor was cca 20mm thick and the maximum speed in terrain was to be cca 30 km/h. This is how it looked:
The prototype (although not fully functional) was ready in April 1944 - it was tested and the tests were reasonably successful (no major breakdowns). The WaPrüf officials were very positive about the vehicle - the only issue being the gun mount, which was not ideal (Ardelt would later move to the Krupp mount). This project was actually still noted as active in September 1944, but at some point after that, it was cancelled due to the low resources.
Another, competing platform would be created by Steyr. Carrying the same weapon and having nearly the same characteristics, its PaK 43 gun mount was modified by Krupp. The vehicle was again using the 38t platform and was to be propelled by the V12 "boxer" Steyr enging (140hp), but that engine was not yet available and so the Praga EPA AC/2 180hp engine was used instead. Maybach HL and Klocker-Deutz diesel engine was also considered. From this point, the pieces of information are a bit sketchy. At least one prototype was made (and captured by the Allies) - it was scheduled to be read around October 1944. At some point after that, the program was stopped. This is how it looked:
The third Waffenträger was built in cooperation of Krupp and Ardelt. A modified platform from the original Ardelt vehicle was used. The vehicle had once again a fully revolving turret with the 88mm PaK 43 cannon. The elevation was -8/+25 this time and the gun had 42 pieces of ammo (6 in the ready rack on the side of the turret. Two prototypes were made until the end of 1944 (2nd prototype was ready on 23.9.1944) - further 7 serial vehicles were also produced. This was probably the only Waffenträger ever to see live combat. All 7 vehicles were attached to Panzerjäger-Alarmkompanie Eberswalde, commanded by Oberleutnant Ardelt (he died fighting on the vehicle). The unit fought near Eberswalde, roughly 50km northeast from Berlin, where it was defeated. One of these vehicles was then brought to Russia, tested in 1946 and remains in Kubinka to this day. This is how it looked:
And how to make this work in World of Tanks? Well, let's see:
Tier 7 - Ardelt Waffenträger (75mm L/70, 88mm PaK 43)
Tier 8 - Ardelt-Krupp Waffenträger (88mm PaK 43, 81mm L/105) (or the Steyr variant)
Tier 9 and 10 - well, this is where it gets REALLY complicated. First, we definitely need a 128mm vehicle here. There was a Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm PaK 44 Waffenträger project too (but stayed only on the paper). Here's how it looked:
Another version:
Game-wise, it would be very light, maneuverable, with fully revolving 128mm PaK 44 (L/55, L/61 variants) mount - the ROF would be boosted compared to the Jagdtiger, the camo factor would be excellent but of course the armor would be non-existent.
And as for tier 10? Well, there are again basically two options: either a 128mm Flak 45 (or rather PaK 45), or a 150mm gun. The first option could use the same carrier as tier 9 (or a modified chassis of Rheinmetall Borsig, which I really like visually):
The second option had a special Waffenträger designed by Krupp:
The FlaK 45 is generally an interesting weapon. It was designed to succeed the 128mm FlaK 40 (PaK 44). It had a bigger breech and used higher load of explosives. The original FlaK could propel the 27kg round at 880 m/s, FlaK 45 could shoot the same shells at 1500 m/s. Combined with an APCR shell... well, you can imagine.
Epilogue
From a pre-war lighttank to the mighty Waffenträger project, the 38t/d suspension proved its worth time and time again. Very few designs survived the war like that. Post-war fate of the 38t suspension was not that bright however. Several light tanks and tank destroyer/SPG designs were proposed in Czechoslovakia and for a while, it was even manufactured with the Hetzer copies for Czechoslovakia and Switzerland, but ultimately, it disappeared in late 50's.
Hello everyone,
recently, an attempt to re-work the current German TD branches has been published on the EU forums. I did not like it - too many fantasy designs (including the usual suspects, such as the "Krokodil") and it was generally just mashing up for the sake of mashup. Well, here's a thought: a lot of people asked thru the months, how would the leicht Waffeträgers (Ardelt, Ardelt-Krupp, Ardelt-Steyr) fit into World of Tanks. Well, I think I found a proper way. Surprisingly, thru the hull/suspension.
The famous LT-38 light tank (known as Panzer 38t) evolved from the basic Praga TNH variant, which in turn, was built around the Praga TN engine (TNH means TN - housenkový: 'tracked'). This is not the place to describe its journey, but from the basic TNH, meant for export to Iran, the Panzer 38t would eventually evolve. The LT-38 was a great tank, judged by many (including Mr. H.Doyle) to be one of the best pre-war light tanks in the world, surpassing the Panzer I and Panzer II light tanks completely. When Czechoslovakia surrendered to Hitler after the western powers betrayed it during the Munich conference, a number of those vehicles, intended for the Czechoslovak army, was captured and later used by Germans to fight in Poland, France and against Soviet Union. But it was just a light tank - its armor and armament couldn't keep up with the enemy medium and heavy designs of 1941/1942. One part never got old though - the suspension. Simply put, it was great. It was valued by the Germans greatly and became the basis for whole series of various vehicles, from recovery vehicles over tank destroyers to self-propelled guns. In late 1944, a decision was even made in connection with phasing out of the Panzer IV production, only 3 platforms will be manufactured in 1945: the Tiger platform, the Panther platform and the 38d platform. But we'll get to that.
Basically, here's a tank destroyer branch proposal based on the 38t/d suspension. Let's look at it.
Changes in the original branch
Before we can start building a new branch, we have to modify the old one a bit. The old branch has something we need: the Hetzer, built on the 38t chassis. That's why I suggest the following:
- remove the Hetzer from the branch
- replace the tier 4 tank destroyer slot with the historical StuG III. Ingame StuG III has 80mm frontal armor and an unhistorical gun (the L/70). Regarding the gun - the latest StuG III version manufactured (the Ausf.G) had the StuK 40 L/48. There was a proposal project to arm the StuG with the L/70, designated Ausf.H (as far as I know), but that never reached a prototype stage. So, give the StuG its historical early version armor (50mm front), its historical gun (L/48), it would make a nice T4.
- put the StuG IV on tier 5. Well, here we'd have to improvise a bit. StuG IV has enough armor for T5 (80mm front), but it still carries the L/48. Basically, a StuG IV with L/70 mounted was renamed to Jagdpanzer IV, but I think we can still work with that.
StuG IV
Alternatively, we can put the StuG III Ausf. H project on T5, but that probably wouldn't work too well, as the vehicle is similiar. What would however work would be T4 StuG III "early" (let's say until Ausf. F/8) while the T5 would be StuG III "late" (Ausf.G,H) with schürzen.
StuG III Ausf.G
The StuG III Ausf.H (its real project name was 7,5 cm PaK 42 L/70 auf StuG III) is sort-of historical. A project for re-arming the StuG III was made in 1943 by Alkett. The rearming was ordered by Hitler himself in December 1942. A wooden mockup was made. After the war, the mockup was captured by the Americans and ended up in Aberdeen. The gun wouldn't however fit in normally - the superstructure was radically reworked. Thus, the ingame StuG III with original superstructure but the L/70 cannon is a fake.
The new branch
So, now that we have the Hetzer available, let's have a look at how such a tree would work:
T2: Panzerjäger I
T3: Marder III Ausf.M
T4: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer"
T5: Hetzer (Krupp) or Aufklärungspanzer 38
T6: Jagdpanzer 38d
T7: Waffenträger Ardelt
T8: Waffenträger Ardelt-Krupp
T9: Waffenträger Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm
T10: Waffenträger Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm/150mm
Tier 3: Marder III Ausf.M
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marder_III
The history of Marder III is described pretty much everywhere, it's a rather known vehicle. In the end, it doesn't really matter which Ausführung you choose, because none of them had usually compatible weapons. The first Marder III, known as Panzerjäger 38t, was equipped with the Sovier 76,2mm gun (PaK 36(r)), modified to fire the German 75mm rounds. Later variants (Ausf.H and M) were fitted with the 75mm Pak 40/3 gun. From what I could find, no Marder III was originally armed with a 50mm gun, so there would be little continuity from the Panzerjäger I. However, given the fact that the second German branch announced by Wargaming (the one with the Waffenträger E-100) has Marder III on T3 slot too, I don't think Wargaming would see this as a problem (or it would dish out some unhistorical mashup of the various Marder III models). Either way, this vehicle is hard to make completely historically, so some suspension of disbelief is necessery.
Weapons: (?) 50mm PaK 39 L/60, 76,2mm PaK 36(r), 75mm PaK 40/3
Tier 4: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer"
Source: http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Hetzer
Here it's kinda pointless to add anything, the vehicle is already in the game and it works fine. Just refer to WoTwiki for details.
Weapons: 75mm StuK40, 75mm PaK39, 105mm StuH 42
Tier 5: Jagdpanzer 38t "Hetzer" (Kruppvorschlag)
In November 1944, Krupp made several proposals regarding the rearming ("Umbewaffnung") of existing hulls. Amongst them was a proposal to upgrade the Hetzer with a superstructure and to mount the 75mm KwK 42 (L/70) gun within. The design had some serious flaws. In order to install the superstructure, the engine and crew compartment would have to be completely reworked. Also, it was doubtful whether the original 38t suspension could hold the weight of the added weight - in order to reach a sufficient level of protection, it would have to carry 18 tons. According to the WaPrüf6 report, this vehicle would have about the same characteristics as the Jagdpanzer IV lang (A), currently being recalled from the front for being a failure.
This project never reached prototype stage. A great number of Krupp redesign project was most likely motivated (the way the 3rd Reich worked) by the attempt to secure further contracts. Most of the design proposals were rejected in January 1945 - it was no time for introduction of new projects. Krupp returned to this concept with a similiar construction, built on 38d hull - with marginally better parameters.
We can only estimate how such a vehicle would behave game-wise. It would most likely have thinner armor and would be slower than the current StuG III, which would have to be compensated by different weaponry.
Weapons: 75mm StuK40, 105mm StuH 42, 75mm KwK 42, PAW600 (German advanced gun project - 81,4mm smoothbore gun, firing HEAT rounds of roughly 140mm penetration)
Tier 6: Jagdpanzer 38d
The Jagdpanzer 38d was based on an evolution of the 38t suspension. Originally, it was called 38 "Reich", but quickly got renamed to 38d (Deutsch). Basically, in September 1944, OKH (army high command) decided they want a new light tank destroyer, based on the 38t chassis. There was a problem however: the 38t chassis was ill-suited for German mass production (due to the way it was manufactured, Czech industrial methods were different from the ones of Germany and could not be copied easily). Thus it was decided the suspension would be modified using the German methods. This project was designed by Alkett and and re-named 38 Ausführung Reich. Basically, the suspension was made 60mm wider and its final drive was strenghtened. In the meanwhile, in October 1944, it was decided to limit the future production of the Third Reich to only three platforms: the Tiger, the Panther and the 38(t/d). The project was finished really quickly - in November 1944, the basic works were finished (by that time it was renamed 38d.) The result was actually quite good and a new tank destroyer was planned based on it. It was to resemble the original 38t, but it was to carry either the 75mm PaK39 L/48 or the 75mm KwK 42 cannon. A version for 105mm StuH42/2 was also concieved. The frontal armor was projected at 60mm. It was projected to be propelled by the Tatra T103 220hp engine, propelling it to 40 km/h.
In January 1945, a detailed meeting of the Entwicklungskomission Panzer in Obering took place, where the plans for the development and production were laid forth, but by then the war was only months from its end. Some plans were made, but they never came to fruition. Two partially assembled prototypes were made by Alkett, but it's unlikely the company ever made them running.
In the game, this could be the "Hetzer on steroids", but truth to be told, it's not that different from the original Hetzer. It would however be rather small - that means good camo rating. The weapons choice is a bit lackluster, but it'll get better.
Weapons: 75mm PaK39 L/48, 105mm StuH 42, 75mm KwK 42, PAW600
Tier 7 onwards - the Waffenträgers
Here it's starting to get a bit complicated. Originally, I thought about the Jagdpanzer 38d (project Krupp) on this spot. It was basically a Jagdpanzer 38d with a superstructure, in the back, armed with a top-of-the-line PAW1000 gun (essentially a smoothbore HEAT-firing German gun, capable of penetrating cca 200mm of armor). It looked like this:
But it has two problems. First: it uses the PAW1000 which is smoothbore (well, at least it's historical), but not the 88mm PaK 43, which would get skipped, only to return on tier 8. That's just weird. Furthermore, the vehicle wasn't exactly stellar. As with the 38t Krupp proposal, the chassis was rather stressed and the characteristics wouldn't be exactly great. I was thinking of adding some later (rifled) variant (81mm L/105 prototype - yes, such a thing existed), but I am not sure it would fit the superstructure. Thus, it would be historically correct to continue with the Waffenträgers.
"Waffenträger" in German means "weapons carrier" - and that's exactly what the Waffenträgers were. If we skip all the improvised weapons carries, made either from captured or German knocked-out tech, the idea to make an unified mass-produced weapons carriers came to be in early 1944. In January 1944, a conference took place between the members of the army and the industry representatives. The army complained that the PaK 42 and PaK 43 cannons were simply way too heavy to manhandle and impossible to tow without special artillery tractors. It was a reasonable complaint - Doyle mentions one incident, when brand new 88mm PaK 43 cannons had to be destroyed without firing a single shot in order to prevent them from falling to the enemy - just because there were no towing vehicles available. Thus a decision was made to mount all the heavy anti-tank guns on a simple, effective and cheap 38t platform, designated as "Einheitsfahrgestell", or "unified platform". Hitler personally started messing around too, ordering the abovementioned decision thru one of his directives and so the Waffenträger concept was born.
The first one to react to this new demand was Ardelt. Its 88mm PaK 43 Waffenträger proposal was made in two versions: one lighter, practically without any protection weighting 10 tons, one protecting the crew at least from small arms fire, weighting 13 tons, having a fully revolving turret. Versions for 75mm PaK 42, 105mm leFH 18/40 and 88mm PaK 43 (L/71) were concieved. This design (with two 1:10 models) was presented to Hitler in late January - Hitler, after seeing it, decided to go straight for the 88mm version, using the "Kreuzlafette" (cross mount). The vehicle was to be equipped with the L/71 gun with 50 rounds of ammo, with depression/elevation of -8/+45 degrees. The gun for the Ardelt project was to be modified by Rheinmetall Borsig. The armor was cca 20mm thick and the maximum speed in terrain was to be cca 30 km/h. This is how it looked:
The prototype (although not fully functional) was ready in April 1944 - it was tested and the tests were reasonably successful (no major breakdowns). The WaPrüf officials were very positive about the vehicle - the only issue being the gun mount, which was not ideal (Ardelt would later move to the Krupp mount). This project was actually still noted as active in September 1944, but at some point after that, it was cancelled due to the low resources.
Another, competing platform would be created by Steyr. Carrying the same weapon and having nearly the same characteristics, its PaK 43 gun mount was modified by Krupp. The vehicle was again using the 38t platform and was to be propelled by the V12 "boxer" Steyr enging (140hp), but that engine was not yet available and so the Praga EPA AC/2 180hp engine was used instead. Maybach HL and Klocker-Deutz diesel engine was also considered. From this point, the pieces of information are a bit sketchy. At least one prototype was made (and captured by the Allies) - it was scheduled to be read around October 1944. At some point after that, the program was stopped. This is how it looked:
The third Waffenträger was built in cooperation of Krupp and Ardelt. A modified platform from the original Ardelt vehicle was used. The vehicle had once again a fully revolving turret with the 88mm PaK 43 cannon. The elevation was -8/+25 this time and the gun had 42 pieces of ammo (6 in the ready rack on the side of the turret. Two prototypes were made until the end of 1944 (2nd prototype was ready on 23.9.1944) - further 7 serial vehicles were also produced. This was probably the only Waffenträger ever to see live combat. All 7 vehicles were attached to Panzerjäger-Alarmkompanie Eberswalde, commanded by Oberleutnant Ardelt (he died fighting on the vehicle). The unit fought near Eberswalde, roughly 50km northeast from Berlin, where it was defeated. One of these vehicles was then brought to Russia, tested in 1946 and remains in Kubinka to this day. This is how it looked:
And how to make this work in World of Tanks? Well, let's see:
Tier 7 - Ardelt Waffenträger (75mm L/70, 88mm PaK 43)
Tier 8 - Ardelt-Krupp Waffenträger (88mm PaK 43, 81mm L/105) (or the Steyr variant)
Tier 9 and 10 - well, this is where it gets REALLY complicated. First, we definitely need a 128mm vehicle here. There was a Rheinmetall-Borsig 128mm PaK 44 Waffenträger project too (but stayed only on the paper). Here's how it looked:
Another version:
Game-wise, it would be very light, maneuverable, with fully revolving 128mm PaK 44 (L/55, L/61 variants) mount - the ROF would be boosted compared to the Jagdtiger, the camo factor would be excellent but of course the armor would be non-existent.
And as for tier 10? Well, there are again basically two options: either a 128mm Flak 45 (or rather PaK 45), or a 150mm gun. The first option could use the same carrier as tier 9 (or a modified chassis of Rheinmetall Borsig, which I really like visually):
The second option had a special Waffenträger designed by Krupp:
The FlaK 45 is generally an interesting weapon. It was designed to succeed the 128mm FlaK 40 (PaK 44). It had a bigger breech and used higher load of explosives. The original FlaK could propel the 27kg round at 880 m/s, FlaK 45 could shoot the same shells at 1500 m/s. Combined with an APCR shell... well, you can imagine.
Epilogue
From a pre-war lighttank to the mighty Waffenträger project, the 38t/d suspension proved its worth time and time again. Very few designs survived the war like that. Post-war fate of the 38t suspension was not that bright however. Several light tanks and tank destroyer/SPG designs were proposed in Czechoslovakia and for a while, it was even manufactured with the Hetzer copies for Czechoslovakia and Switzerland, but ultimately, it disappeared in late 50's.
Mar 13, 2013
A few points regarding this blog
Hello everyone,
I feel it necessery to address several questions I get asked a lot (only yesterday I recieved cca 120 e-mails, thanks for all of them guys, it's much appreciated, I will dig thru them and respond to every single one eventually).
Translations:
Translations will continue as they did until now. However, there is something I'd like to address: I have nothing against people translating the stuff I write to other languages, but I do not wish that the english tranlation gets copied to official Wargaming forums straight from the blog. There are three reasons for it. First and foremost, I really don't want to see that Ectar coming in that thread I built and gloating about "a lot of helpful content". I see no reason why Wargaming should profit in any way from what I do. At least not anymore.
Second reason is that the translations are often unclear and sometimes require additional explanations for people to understand the background. I can't obviously do that on the forums anymore, I can do it here. Third reason would be me liking to know how many people actually read my stuff and where are they from in general. Don't worry, I won't profit on that in any way, there are no ads here.
I cannot enforce this wish in any way, that much is clear, but you'd do me a favour if you helped me out here. After all, it's not that big of a deal checking the blog instead of that thread, right? Yes I know it's now banned to link my blog in general. Soviet Union style!
Leaks:
Well, I am here in a bit of a pickle. I have some interesting stuff here - also some pretty ugly stuff. But I am currently waiting for response from perhaps the single person in Wargaming I actually still respect (well, not entirely true, there are more people I respect to be honest - Chieftain and Challenger come to mind) and I kinda promised I'd stay away from the leaks to him. We'll see how everything goes.
Aaaaaaaaanyway...
Have a nice evening
SS
I feel it necessery to address several questions I get asked a lot (only yesterday I recieved cca 120 e-mails, thanks for all of them guys, it's much appreciated, I will dig thru them and respond to every single one eventually).
Translations:
Translations will continue as they did until now. However, there is something I'd like to address: I have nothing against people translating the stuff I write to other languages, but I do not wish that the english tranlation gets copied to official Wargaming forums straight from the blog. There are three reasons for it. First and foremost, I really don't want to see that Ectar coming in that thread I built and gloating about "a lot of helpful content". I see no reason why Wargaming should profit in any way from what I do. At least not anymore.
Second reason is that the translations are often unclear and sometimes require additional explanations for people to understand the background. I can't obviously do that on the forums anymore, I can do it here. Third reason would be me liking to know how many people actually read my stuff and where are they from in general. Don't worry, I won't profit on that in any way, there are no ads here.
I cannot enforce this wish in any way, that much is clear, but you'd do me a favour if you helped me out here. After all, it's not that big of a deal checking the blog instead of that thread, right? Yes I know it's now banned to link my blog in general. Soviet Union style!
Leaks:
Well, I am here in a bit of a pickle. I have some interesting stuff here - also some pretty ugly stuff. But I am currently waiting for response from perhaps the single person in Wargaming I actually still respect (well, not entirely true, there are more people I respect to be honest - Chieftain and Challenger come to mind) and I kinda promised I'd stay away from the leaks to him. We'll see how everything goes.
Aaaaaaaaanyway...
Have a nice evening
SS
Arty suggestion: Barrage mode
Okay, this is something I've thought about for a while. I was thinking about what would I suggest to actually improve the artillery gameplay. Based on a post I made under the latest entry in Overlord's blog, here's the idea:
How about this: special cooldown mode "barrage"
Each arty vehicle can activate barrage mode once per 7 minutes. It is aimed just as regular arty (thru the arty scope). When it is activated, the artillery vehicle starts a barrage of shells on its target.
This mode would be special: the shells wouldn't count as "ammo fired" (thus they'd be "for free"). They would have double their normal splash, but cause only 1/2 to 1/4 (depending on their caliber) of their normal damage. Their aiming spread would resemble the maximum aim circle of that respective arty - as if it just moved (thus, the shells would cover most of the maximum zoomed-out view in artymode)
Rate of fire would be roughly one shell each 1-3 seconds, the barrage would take 30 or so seconds. When using barrage, the artillery vehicle can't move or stop the barrage and its camo factor is reduced to 0 (eg. it is instantly spotted whenever someone even looks its general direction). Furthermore, barrage shells have distinctive tracers (which would activate when the shell is in mid flight in order not to make the countearty too easy) and sound effects ("hweeeeeee.... boooom") so the vehicles in the target zone know they are under barrage fire and have a chance to clear out.
Basically, the aim would be to create a suppression zone, which no enemy (or friendly!) tank would want to enter. While the damage from entering the zone would be lower, it would be also more certain, given the bigger splash of the barrage shells. It could create an interesting tactical element, when an artillery stops the enemy assault dead in its tracks by covering a chokepoint with barrage fire, or it could possibly break a stalemate (think El Halluf or early Malinovka camping) by covering enemy positions with barrage fire, forcing them out of their hiding spots into the open.
How about this: special cooldown mode "barrage"
Each arty vehicle can activate barrage mode once per 7 minutes. It is aimed just as regular arty (thru the arty scope). When it is activated, the artillery vehicle starts a barrage of shells on its target.
This mode would be special: the shells wouldn't count as "ammo fired" (thus they'd be "for free"). They would have double their normal splash, but cause only 1/2 to 1/4 (depending on their caliber) of their normal damage. Their aiming spread would resemble the maximum aim circle of that respective arty - as if it just moved (thus, the shells would cover most of the maximum zoomed-out view in artymode)
Rate of fire would be roughly one shell each 1-3 seconds, the barrage would take 30 or so seconds. When using barrage, the artillery vehicle can't move or stop the barrage and its camo factor is reduced to 0 (eg. it is instantly spotted whenever someone even looks its general direction). Furthermore, barrage shells have distinctive tracers (which would activate when the shell is in mid flight in order not to make the countearty too easy) and sound effects ("hweeeeeee.... boooom") so the vehicles in the target zone know they are under barrage fire and have a chance to clear out.
Basically, the aim would be to create a suppression zone, which no enemy (or friendly!) tank would want to enter. While the damage from entering the zone would be lower, it would be also more certain, given the bigger splash of the barrage shells. It could create an interesting tactical element, when an artillery stops the enemy assault dead in its tracks by covering a chokepoint with barrage fire, or it could possibly break a stalemate (think El Halluf or early Malinovka camping) by covering enemy positions with barrage fire, forcing them out of their hiding spots into the open.
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